Paying for MA lessons

Ok

Well, Ive never started a thread so bear with me.

Something has been on my mind for a while now, and I would like to speak up.

Many times I have seen complaints regarding martial arts should be free. Sifu's and Master's should not charge.

I feel this is silly. Of the Sifu's and Master's I know ..... and There are a few who are respected all over the world, one is from Shanghai and has been here since the 80's.

Anyway, From my understanding, They paid there "dues" and I feel nothing is wrong that we as students pay our dues.

This is not old day China, or Japan, Or elsewhere in the world where they live in a hut and harvest rice and fish to feed their bellys and spend their days practicing Martial Arts.

Some of them have families, some of their families have illnesses,(cancer, lung disease,alzhiemers, etc), they have rent, car payments, child care, health insurance......

True, some may have a day job. BUT the ones who truly spend there days and nights as dedicated martial arts practitioners, where do you suppose they are to get the funds to pay for food to feed their families and house them, and health care?

Im not saying some of these school are not indeed gouging folk I just want you to think about it before you say they should share something for free that they put many years and hard work and their own money into.

We dont expect doctors and lawyers, and grocers to give us services for free.

Well, I guesse I made my point, Hope I didn't offend anyone, just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

that's exactly what i tell my sensei. start charging your students! ofcors not too expensive also. becoz i think todays students will only take their training seriously if they pay for them.

 

That is exactly right! I get so irritated in the chat room when people say i am at a mcdojo because Sifu charges. My Sifu is a wonderful soul .... it has been proven countless times with many students, over the 8 years I have been in my school. I love him Very much.

 

I feel it's up to the instructor to decide what they want to charge. The only free training I've ever recieved was from a friend in high school who showed me a little TSD when I was thinking about joining his school and I've never expected any. I certainly don't feel that it is unfair or unreasonable to charge for martial arts instruction. I want to be compensated for my time and expertise and I would expect the same from anyone else. Even if they are teaching out of their garage and doing it strictly for the love of the art there is the cost of equipment replacement etc. that needs to be considered. If they rent a facility then that is a substantial expense every month that has to be covered.

On the other hand, when I run across a school that seems particularly worried about contracts, money and advetising I become dubious about the quaility of the instruction. I will admit that there are good schools out there that also have strong emphasis on profit, but I've had better luck overall with instructors who are primarily trying to break even.

 

Check out Matt Bernius' Schools: Successful vs Commercial thread (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=206771#post206771) for some good insights as well...

 

u have to understand that ma instructors are real people and teaching ma is there job i no my master has three kids and a wife he started our studio yes because he likes ma and wanted to pass it on but also because he has stuff to pay for but that is not his only goal of course he is very dedicated and is always there trying to push us to suceed (even with about 300 studients that come in through out the weak he still will take time to pull me to the side and watch my katas and fight me) unlike some owners that collect the money and leave it up to the hired instructors.

 

although i totally agree i fine line has to be drawn so that people can do the MA. i had to quit wingtsun because i couldnt afford the $45 a month (im only 17). I would hope sensei or whatever you like to call them understand that though MA's should be paid for its not about he money its about spreading that art around. If i ever get to the stage where i can teach i would make it non-profit and work a different job aswell.

 

Absolutely. As one instructor I know says, "I don't charge for the art - it's priceless. But my time is worth something. And that's what I charge for."

If some instructors choose not to charge, that's up to them.

But for people to expect to get the training for free - that's just ridiculous. People fully expect to pay personal trainers and don't balk at it - at least as far as I know.

People have this weird concept of martial arts and martial arts instructors. A lot of people attach some sort of strange mythos to the martial arts. Maybe it's from watching too many B movies or something. I don't know.

And, tangential to this, a lot of people expect to take a few classes, maybe drink a potion or something, and become the next Bruce Lee. When they find out that it takes a lot of training, hard work, sweat, and pain, they vanish fromm class. And, usually, end up in aerobic kickboxing and delude themselves into thinking that they're getting something more than a good workout.

Mike

 

About costs

This is from a post I made earlier (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3087&page=2&pp=15&highlight=cost) but it gives an idea what your money goes for...

"Some schools are expensive, especially the ones that are out to make a profit. However, a local school does need money to survive.

In a case like the school where I train, my master has a full time job in construction but loves teaching martial arts. He likes to have lots of classes so he can cover lots of different levels and topics. The problem is that he needs a place to train (as well as insurance). He isn't going to pay the bills out of his pocket.

Keep in mind that money is also needed to improve your dojang... padded tiles/mats are expensive. Those heavy bags/paddles/targets cost a lot. Rent, utilities and insurance drive the price up as well. The istructor should be reimbursed for time, gasoline and costs (that in my mind is just good manners).


Speaking of paperwork costs... if you are affiliated with a federation, your master pays charter fees, which can be pretty high. In return for the fees, you get many benefits:

1. Rank certification beyond just your school (e.g. if you are dan ranked with the Kukkiwon, you hold that rank nearly everywhere in the world)...

2. A curriculum which is fairly the same across all affiliated schools (which is nice if you travel or move and get into another charter member's school).

3. And, if you travel, you can train at any member school for no additional fee (as long as you hold membership)... I like this benefit as I travel sometimes.

4. Access to charter sponsored tournaments and seminars at reduced prices (or free)...

5. Fees usually include your belts, certificates, patches, etc.

6. A guarantee (in a way) that the ranks given by this organization are roughly equal across all member schools. When you vists another member school, your rank will be honored and you should be on a roughly even level with holders of similar rank. This is a way to prevent instructors from not teaching you what the federation deems important (curriculum).

It is sort of bad that we have to pay a lot of money for training but the reality is that the money is needed to keep a school going. If you have an unaffiliated master, the downside is that sometimes s/he doesn't have access to improving his/her abilities through the seminars held through the federation aimed at improving instructors. Also, the instructor may not have access to as much tapes/books/senior instructors that an affiliated master would. It is nice when you find a master that balances the cost of running a business with an acceptable level of payment for the students."

 

before i came of what i am i was paying 30 an HR, and i thought it was worth it to,there were times when my instructor let me slide,but after learning so many arts,at the end he started teaching me for free,i havent had a student since then ,but i charge quite a bit,and its worth it to,i think all of us instructors should at least charge something ,cuz what i get out of a student goes for the school and training equipment,ansd i think thats what other instructors do,its not about the money,but there teaching there knowledge,and there using there time to teach you,and they went thru alot a hard work to get where there at , and im sure they had to pay,but people now and days,want everything for free,if not they dont want it", thats just the way it is,if you ask me the ones that pay are the ones that want it,cuz thier paying that means they want it.my opinion

 

i was taking private lessons,but TAE KWON DO in that place ran you 50$ month,it was worth it though, look where im at now,it was 30$ HR,I asked him where does the money go ,he told me 15 for him and 15 towards the school ,and before the school closed down,i was teaching,and it was the same for me,now i charge less than that because its just me,and money aint everythiing to me when it comes to martial arts.

 

In shorinji kempo the instructor is never paid. Any fees/dues go toward renting the facility or buying new equipment.
I'm not too sure what I think about that. On the one hand, it really ensures that the sensei is teaching because he loves the art and wants to pass it on. At the same time though, I can't help but feel that a lack of payment might discourage some from opening their own dojos, and hampers the progression of shorinji kempo.

 

that seems like a wierd system. makes sense but doesn't. i train in a school hall which we've got an agreement for. We do a demo each time they have a fare or play and we can use their hall. I also train at a sport centre so we have to pay some for that, not much but it does add up through out the year

 

I dont mind paying for lessons at all...never thought Id get them for free.... but it makes me angry how much most places in my area charge.... the mininmum Ive found so far here is $79 a months for two classes a week. If you want to train "unlimited" (most places that have an unlimited package seem to only really have three classes outside of work hours anyway) its gonna cost at least $100 a month. I had the moronic idea to go check out a tiger schulmans place because it was close to my house...these pricks wanted to charge over $300 a months for three classes a week.... I almost passed out when the guys told me that.

 

You know, it infuriates me when people suggest that MA instructors should teach for free. You think your instructor got all his training for nothing?

Think about it this way - your instructor loves his art and wants to pass it on. He's prepared to take the risk of starting abusiness to pass on his art to those interested to learn. He therefore needs to charge the students so that he can eat and have a place to live.

If he didn't charge you, he'd have to have a different job and would therefore not be able to put the same energy into teaching his art. Who's really missing out there?

 

see thats crazy,now im alittle high, just because of what you learn,my minimum a month is 67$ a month but you get tested in 3 months.intermidiate 100$ a month,but you get tested in 2 months,my max is 200$a month,but you get tested in one month.and i would have the students alternate from rank to rank what they want to pay,67$you get2 days a week for a month,and the other two you only get one.100$you get 2 classes a week,for the whole 2 months.200$you get 4 classes a week,for the whole month.now heres the thing,say they pay me 200$and the month went on,and they didnt pass there test,i dont charge them any foward lessons until they pass there test,so all lessons after that will be free until they pass there test.200$is enough.moneys not everything.

 

So you charge by the test?

Just joking, nm.

In MA, you pay with effort - you get out what you put in. Money is just an aside.

 

bigd: what if your student didnt care about rank and testing and just wanted to train? what would you charge for three classes a week?

 

Money is only an aside if you can afford the classes.... maybe my problem is that im no longer a college student...so i dont get those kinda discounts....( I love it when places offer college student discounts...it shows an understanding for financial need)... but yet im still so new in my field i dont get paid enough to pay $200 a month or even $100 a month.... $67 I could do.... but for two classes a week... come on...