Patrick Swayze's Tai Chi Scene in Roadhouse

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Grond, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Funny, his father's actual profession was "chemical plant engineer draftsman".
    Maybe he boxed and rode bulls as hobbies, but I don't know that he was professional by any means.

    I only came across this because amazon recommended me a film that he happens to be in, and it's listed in his bio.
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    If this threads shown us anything by now it's that grond doesn't let actual facts get in the way of what he wants the truth to be
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Both of those lists are not talking about the "best" (or "finest" as you put it) dancer.
    They are talking about fame and influence and visibility.
    There is a BIG difference between being the "finest" and being famous or influential.
    No doubt Swayze was an influential dancer. Dirty Dancing is, and continues to be, a dance cultural benchmark.
    But that doesn't make Swayze one of the finest dancers of the 21st century.

    The same happens in boxing. Mayweather is sometimes touted as the best ever (and he's clearly brilliant). You can find lists he tops all over.
    But there are other boxers much more deserving of that title your average punter can't even name.
    How many people know who Nicolino Locche is? Not the best boxer per se but probably the finest defensive fighter ever?
    Benny Leonard? Joe Gans? Willie Pep?
    aaradia likes this.
  4. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    How oft o'er the years hae we seen this line offered up by them wha dinna like wha another hae writ?

    C'mon,that's as good as "Oh,yeah? Well,your mother wears army boots!"
    Right on,baby! We all just too uptight here!
    An excellent (?) subject to examine regarding good vs. bad TC--- because he was deemed to be sexy? Or because it was so abysmal?

    Because even now that you've accepted that the TC was junk-which is what this whole discussion became about- you're still posting all this stuff about how great the guy was in other things,and how popular he was-which is still irrelevant.
    "Martial arts icon"? Since when? To who? Yeah,right up there with Gogen Yamaguchi,Chai Sirisute,and of course,Chuck.

    The guy was in some action films. I don't recall the PR especially touting him as Kung Fu Joe.
    OK,example of such--your excellent take on a possible meaning in the TC scene as being demonstrative of the "softer" side of his MAs. "Softness" ,or at least the Western take on it in regards to MAs is often intertwined with a pseudo philosophic outlook which ignores the facts that "softer" fighting systems feel just as awful to be on the receiving end of as any other systems. Since some of the training methods look rather odd to the layperson-in TC the main form and push hands for example-some folks create an...aura of sorts around things. Which is why a TC form was more "hip" to put in the peaceful morning scene than Tekki Nidan,even though a Karate practitioner could feel "the Tao" or whatever just as much.

    Which is why I said "I think it was probably something the studio decided to put in to show how "groovy" the character was.All philosophic and such TC drivel."

    It's not that all such things/perceptions are in and of themselves drivel.But TC is often perceived by many practitioners and non as a huge spiritual/philosophic/metaphysical thing.Which it can be,but no more so than Judo .TC suffers from an overabundance of philosophers and sages of,um, VERY varied levels of TC knowledge/ability.

    The vast majority of TC books in English don't have much to do with TC as a fighting system/MA.Some sorta "art",maybe.They almost all will have some "history" and things about Tao,Wu Hsing,concepts of softness,or "internal",philosophy etc. So what are fine things of themselves become drivel.

    When a younger co-worker asked me "But isn't TC more spiritual than other martial arts?" that's an example of how drivel effects public perception.And why TC
    rather than Tekki Nidan.

    See- what does that mean,the softer side? Because he's tranquil in an idyllic setting? What he's practicing is a compendium of function of which much is pretty nasty stuff. But most viewers don't know this,do they? It's just ethereally cosmic looking. Unlike Tekki Nidan.
    How unlike a guy who ran a gym like Benny's to suggest this to one of his guys who was good. And so what?
    Just like Mickey Rourke did!Oh......

    Probably was for the betterment or at least stability of human society. Swayze approaching the popularity of Ali or The Babe. I shudder.

    But yeah.I can certainly imagine a world where he went on to become a fighter and did NOT capture the hearts and minds of possibly billions of people,but merely faded into obscurity and was forgotten,like most fighters. But I suppose you're assuming he would have been a top level competitor.Because otherwise no one would care.

    Except maybe Mickey Rourke.
    aaradia and Dan Bian like this.
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Another example of hero worship is repeatedly discussing how he won some magazine "most sexy person" award.

    Completely irrelevant to TCC.

    But I find it odd that Grond pointed this out, yet he also argues that the shirtless muscle flexing TCC was NOT put in there for sex appeal? Like you don't think movie makers try to capitalize on the sex appeal of their stars? Really? That is super naïve.

    And then you throw in some weird line like me saying this was the purpose was because I was personally overwhelmed with attraction for him? :eek: I have to say, if you look back on these posts, there is only one person who seems overwhelmed with attraction and obsession for Swayze and it isn't me. ;)
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
    Dan Bian and El Medico like this.
  6. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    There's a whole load of behind the scenes stuff on IMDB, including the part about Benny suggesting Swayze was good enough for competition. That was good enough for me! And IMDB is a pretty reliable source. Benny's opinion is what I've based most of my comments on, in addition to all the glowing acclaim from the professional dancing sphere.

    It's not hero worship, it's respect for Benny's opinion, not to mention a hell of a lot of Swan Lake pros, the latter of which gets a hard rap, I think, especially from the martial arts sphere (meanwhile I feel most dancers would hand most "martial artists" their heads in a fight).

    Maybe it's just me, seeing so much overlap between dancing and boxing (and thus Tai Chi), whereas the rest of you are so focused on Patrick Swayze, the movie star, and nit picking? Only seen this kind of Swayze hate one other place, and that's in a bar full of dudes with low self esteem. Sorry for being honest.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  7. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    :rolleyes: That you see what has been said here as hating on Swayze, despite repeated explanations otherwise says it all. And yeah, another example of hero worship.

    One scene in one film is all that was disliked. And then we refused to buy into ridiculous claims that he was a martial arts icon by, what was it millions? Or that we disputed that he was among the top ballet dancers of his generation or something like that? Naw, that isn't hate, that is just not worshipping and idolizing him like a teenager with a bad crush.
    Nachi likes this.
  8. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    And how many people are told every year they're ready to get in the ring? It's not a rarity.
    Which again has no bearing on a movie clip of poor TC.
    Well,kids,Grond's discovered the MAP prejudice against dancers.

    Guess we should confess our feelings about figure skaters,too.

    It's enlightening to be told that individuals who practice aesthetic dance art are more capable in a dust up than people who practice striking/locking/throwing others about. So THAT'S why Dad wanted me to learn tap. Luckily dancers aren't practicing dojoarashi ! Kano's followers can rest easy.
    Overlap is basically general awareness along with body motion/awareness/mechanical skills. Overall quite different in specific mechanics and intent/expression(function).

    Knowledge and skills from one can certainly aid in learning the other.
    No one was focused on Swayze the individual,the actor,the dancer,the "martial arts icon", -(your words)-student of Benny,the etc.,etc.-at least until you started proclaiming his overall greatness in irrelevant areas and his huge influence inspiring gazillions to take up TC. Which has no bearing...see above.

    You're perceiving hate? I don''t see it.Some of us have made clear we didn't dislike the guy. People "nitpicking" about a grossly bad performance or disputing your other (irrelevant) claims doesn't logically lead to a conclusion of hate or even dislike.

    Where is this place where people spend time bad mouthing Patrick Swayze? Whole new meaning to "strange crowd"!:eek:
  9. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    So no source then for anything you have posted other than some second hand stuff on a movie website, got you.

    And you do know ever actor who has ever played a boxer has been good enough to go pro, from raging bull to rocky we are told the actor had the ability to be a pro, because what else is the trainer going to say when asked in interviews? "No they would get creamed in a real fight they have no real skills?" That's really going to help sell the film isn't it......

    And most dancers would hand most martial artists their heads in a fight, yep I can see Wayne Sleep destroying Paul Daley or Geoff Thompson in a fight good call....

    I've not hated in Swayze once I like most of his films but honestly the last time I saw blind hero worship like this it was coming from guys living in their mums basement and playing way too many inline games
  10. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yes that's exactly our motivation.
    We're all low ranking males hatin' on Swayze and not giving him due props because we are jealous of his martial brilliance.

    I repeat for the hard of understanding...he was a good looking bloke, a heart throb, a charismatic screen actor, he was a great dancer, a (probably) good martial artist and he made some very influential films (Dirty Dancing, Ghost, Point break), some awful films (Steel Dawn?) and some films (some good some bad) that became cult classics (Roadhouse, Outsiders, Red Dawn, Donnie Darko).
    His impact on "reel" martial arts and "real" martial arts is fairly minimal really.
    And none of that is hate or even harsh criticism. Just an accurate appraisal.
  11. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    The first rule of "we hate Patrick Swayze club" is we do NOT talk about "we hate Patrick Swayze club".
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Grond, I challenge you to stop with all the non-relevant information and say SPECIFICALLY what details are good about his Tai Chi. This is the meat of the issue.

    I will give yo a quick list (I am getting ready for work) of what is BAD TCC the way I have been taught.

    1. Shoulders not down during some moves.
    2. Arm moves disconnected from body
    3. Too tense- muscle flexing
    4. Fingers too tense by being in a spear hand position- pressed too closely together sometimes
    5. At other times hand too relaxed, hands cupped - no intention
    6. arms too collapsed at times
    7. Thumbs tucked at times.

    Anyone else want to add specifics that I missed in my hurry?

    Does your Tai Chi teacher teach you these things are good? :confused::eek:

    Enough with all the side stuff idolizing. Talk to me about this scene specifically!
    Nachi likes this.
  13. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Let's be fair. The performance level was conceded already-
    Tho' I admit I was surprised that after learning a bit o' TC the clip was initially still considered good.
  14. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I am trying to get this thread back to a more constructive place and to the martial arts part.

    Plus, here and in other threads Grond has said he has trouble telling good videos from bad. Analysis in details will help.

    Also, I wonder if he really believes that? He said one line agreeing, but then went on with his adamant defense. Without him seeing the details, does he really think it is bad, considering well after that concession he is still ultra sensitive to any criticism of Swayze? To the point he said we hate Swayze?

    I would honestly like to hear him break down the moves in detail. Let's discuss the Tai Chi in the clip, Grond. Not the man, not the dancer, not the actor. Let's just analyze that clip, "good" or bad with specifics.
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Point taken on that.
    We've all already stated why it's a bad demo. He gave up disputing that . The rest was just defense of an idol. Possible he still doesn't believe us.

    In which case maybe he'll accept your invite below if he's not convinced.
    [/QUOTE]I would honestly like to hear him break down the moves in detail. Let's discuss the Tai Chi in the clip, Grond. Not the man, not the dancer, not the actor. Let's just analyze that clip, "good" or bad with specifics.[/QUOTE]
    Oh,hope ya didn't mind gettin' lumped in with us guys of low self-esteem.;) We'll meet ya at the bar later!
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    So I'm officially a reactionary old person now:

    SW_SPLASH_conor poster.jpg

    This is the worst idea since someone said, 'Yeah, let's take this suspiciously large wooden horse into Troy. Statues are all the rage this season.'.
    axelb likes this.
  17. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Oh no..
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  18. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I never thought they could have found someone more wooden that swayze was in the first film....but they managed it :eek::eek:
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I seriously do wonder if they will recreate the infamous Tai Chi scene. And how bad that version will be if it is included!
  20. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I think tai chi authenticity was not even in their thoughts I think showing off Swayzes body was.....and I don't think anyone will want to see McGregors body

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