Pathwalker Guild

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Saturnine138, Jan 4, 2006.

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  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Thanks for being honest MARBO-man!!!, I hope you appreciate I am trying to do the same.

    I am not here to defend the website, I agree that it misrepresents the training in many ways, and that it would ring alarm bells in anyone that has knowledge of the many cons and rackets in the martial arts world.
     
  2. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    not trying to disprove(?) or comment on your training system/organisation but telling someone to regularly train on snow to improve the balance of their kicks is just down right silly and from studies ive read balance training with unstable surfaces - its down right silly and has little to no actual use in improving balance, technique or strength.

    that in itself makes your earlier point moot.

    im glad you try your best to prevent injuries but i thought id make you aware of this issue to help you prevent injury in students..
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I know very little about military training, so cannot answer your questions regarding what training these guys received in-service.

    Few yes, but Marbo has always been a pretty small group. The only military personnel I have trained with have been UK. It doesn't suprise me that you've never heard of us, very few have even in the UK.

    Qualify "made up".

    We do not teach techniques to non-members. Anyone is welcome to try our sessions, if the instructor wants to train them. Seems a pretty simple deal to me.

    I have never pretended to attack an elf, nor have I actually attacked one.

    So you discount the opinion of the other MAP members posting in this thread?

    Nice.
     
  4. MARBO-man!!!

    MARBO-man!!! Valued Member

    Hi Zaad - can you point me in the direction of some of that info? I have to say that I try and look logically at any training scenario, and I have always thought that if you always practise on a straight, dry, level floor then should your actual reality when you need to do something (and here I mean taking a step backwards for example) be that of a sweaty, beer soaked wooden floor - surely you would be less capable of maintaining your footing, than if you had routinely practised stepping forwards or backwards on a variety of surfaces??

    Surely that is logical? Your body can only learn through application and repetition and your muscles can only react to previously experienced stimuli. If it has never experienced or trained for it, how can it do it?

    Please note, I am not talking here about whether or not it is necessarily 'safe' to practise head high kicks in 3 inches of mud - what I am asking is whether or not you agree that the concept of training for something, prepares your body for that event?
     
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Well, thanks for your concern. Your points do not tally with my understanding of stabilizer muscles.

    If you could link to the studies you mention, I'd appreciate it.

    Oh, and in the UK it is not possible to train regularly in the snow, unless you live on a Scottish mountain.

    How about Silat? Should they stop training in the mud?
     
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yes, this is my understanding also.
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The problem with this website is that the courses offered include "black grade" training, and I am of the understanding that the guy offering this does not posses that knowledge to pass on.
     
  8. MARBO-man!!!

    MARBO-man!!! Valued Member

    Really? I didn't really look into it all that much - do you know who it is then? I just thought that it was a bit more of an honest representation of what it was about.
     
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yes, I agree it's a better site, although the picture of staff use is not very representative of our techniques.

    It name on the contact information is Simon Pither. the latest news is about the club recruiting in August 2011, so it seems inactive.
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    We dont give our techniques away?

    Please

    Typical evasive drivel trotted out by those fraudulent groups with something to hide, usually a crappy system or a modern made up BS hybrid with delusions of ancient links and quasi-mythical cobblers

    Does this mean marbo is one of those BS groups? No it does not - and I do appreciate you being here fighting your corner

    But all the hallmarks are there - every single thing so far posted is apologetic and evasive.

    I postulate you can show nothing in technique that has not been seen before and the balance of probabilities is firmly on my side.
     
  11. MARBO-man!!!

    MARBO-man!!! Valued Member

    Ah yes, of course. It does seem inactive, although there are quite a few different faces on there. Might send him an email! Do you know anything about him? If you do and you could get him to this thread he may have something to add, one way or the other.

    Where and when do you train by the way? if I'm ever in the area I could always dust off the old mitts and see if they still remember what a good hook punch looks like :)
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Obviously you can think what you like. Anyone can turn up for a free session, if they are dubious I offer them the opportunity to test my abilities. The system has aspects that do seem unique, in the beginner to intermediate grades the ease and flow of parries is something I've not seen replicated in other systems, and I've never seen multiple attacker tactics explained or performed as effectively in other systems either. In the second black grade there is a powerful conceptual system that I've not heard the like of in other systems. I do not teach my students any quasi-mythical cobblers, there is no chi or psychic powers, only bodies, weapons and physics.

    Thanks, I understand the suspicion brought about by the policies of the group, but if I want to continue training I must abide by them, and I truly feel it is worth it.

    Really? I didn't think I was being apologetic or evasive, just honest.

    That may well be. I don't expect you to turn up to a session any time soon, and that's fine. I just wanted to put my experience with the training accross.
     
  13. MARBO-man!!!

    MARBO-man!!! Valued Member

    I assure you that you are correct - there is nothing new in this world in any case. I think I said way back that if you combined quite a lot of Wing Chun, with some western boxing, a bit of Judo and perhaps some of the TKD kicks in the right fashion then you would be 90% there.

    If you remember I think I also described most of the grading system and other bits for you - none of it is magic, just effective in its combination of techniques, and the way it is taught.

    I disagree with David on several points, but I think he has considerably less of an axe to grind that I do - or maybe none at all!

    Unfortunately again, the phrase 'we don't teach our techniques to non-members' is a phrase that has been trotted out in some of the earliest advertising I remember. However, if you think about it - its a bit daft really, as how else are you supposed to interest someone in doing any training ?! Many people leave either before or after their initial Green grading - and go back to being 'non-members' - they can't un-learn what they have been taught, so that I have always thought is a bit illogical.

    At the end of the day, unless you are standing in front of me, there is very little that I can do to demonstrate anything to you, which leaves you still being unconvinced. Maybe David can video some techniques for you at his club and link them on here - up to him of course, but why not??!

    Lets see what he says - it can't do any harm, and it would at least be good to give everyone some idea of what its about. One thing I can promise - it will be punches and kicks, just like any martial art - done differently perhaps to what you do, but easily recognisable as standard and effective techniques.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I've never met Simon, he left before I started training. He is not a warranted Marbo instructor. To my knowledge he was tested up to G3, so is missing the technical minutiae of G&B training, or the system overview of B&G. I have no idea how close his classes (if they're still running) are to Marbo training proper.

    I train in Bristol, PM me if you're in the area.

    Regards,

    David
     
  15. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    So if people question things you beat them up? :D

    Just kidding couldn't resist
     
  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    you'll have to excuse me if i take a while to to get my references together and send them to you but speaking generally (without the source)s at the moment. you are correct.

    i agree theres a level of scenario training you should use for things like footwork on slippery ground but specifically high kicking on slippery ground has all the hazards that are flagposted to cause knee injury in athletes involved in open skill sports. they usually involve moving an unstable surface (slippery ground), sharp turning or twisting motions (high kicks) and moving at speed (again putting power into high kicks).

    in general the risk vs rewards of training high kicking on slippery surfaces isnt worth it

    from my understanding, silat uses lower postures and doesnt traditionally involve many high kicks so they have a low centre of gravity, better footing and therefore less risk.
     
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You could also say that some bits look kind of like Silat or JKD, even Kali, but I would say that it is more free and adaptable than what I have seen of them.

    I actually think that the methods of training set it apart more than the techniques, and I'd be hard pushed to pin-down exactly why that is. I've had three students attacked before they had even done their first grading, all of them came back saying how simple and effective the techniques were, but I think it has more to do with how they are taught and assimilated.

    No axe to grind. I was around when people were getting all dramatic and walking out, but I've only ever been interested in the training, not politics or power plays (which, we must all admit, can happen in any martial arts club). I've only ever received support and good training from the "head guy". Since that little exodus all has been good, some old heads came back who I presume had issue with those that left, and now the members are living the ethos of a wide-spread close-knit community, not paying lip-service to it while spewing gossip behind the scenes.

    To be honest, as you said, it is techniques that exist elsewhere so members leaving with that knowledge do not particularly threaten the uniqueness of the training, and most of them will probably focus on the combat techniques rather than the some of the training methods and excercises that bring those techniques together in ways I haven't seen elsewhere. The real unique parts come with the second black grade, and I've not heard of anyone who's done that sharing the information. It is a gift given in confidence. I understand that in this age of free-sharing of information this will be looked on with suspicion, but why should we not retain our unique qualities?

    I could only do that with the dispensation of my instructor, and I doubt that will happen. At the end of the day, I only have to convince those close enough to me to train, and they can always turn up to a session or try and attack me (that's not a challenge, I'm a peaceful guy, just the logical options).

    I am not claiming to posses superhuman fighting abilities. I started out as a soft guy really, and I still am in many ways, except now I'm a well trained one who can hold his own with the tough boys, hold informed discussion about the techniques of combat, and pass on that knowledge to others who have used it to successfully protect themselves from harm (least often by actual fighting, as in a civilised society that is the last line of defence). That is good enough for me.
     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    :lowblow:

    Haha, this board has some cool emoticons! :D
     
  19. MARBO-man!!!

    MARBO-man!!! Valued Member

    Um - can't seem to. No PM possibility. Also I was looking at your info page, and it turns out you were last viewed by MemberSec a few minutes ago !!!

    They have their beady eyes on you......

    p.s. theres a genuine possibility I might be coming up to Bristol this weekend - so PM me and we'll see if we can sort something out.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Well, they may have just got an email that this thread has been posted on again, if I were to take a less paranoid perspective :)

    No PM, but it seems you can send me an email, try that.
     
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