Part of taekwondo problem?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by S&CMAN, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Valued Member

    Don't (or didn't) your Taekwon-Do training include an aspect of mental training? I have no idea what your background is so that's why I'm asking.

    Pax,

    Chris
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Does yours, and if so in what format?

    I have found that in many cases within the MA community what they sya is "mental training" is not that per se
     
  3. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I respectfully suggest that it will be impossible to "compare symbols of achievement" as each style, system org, instructor or school has their own BB requirements. It all boils down to apples & oranges
     
  4. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes but again you are trying to get people to sign onto your perception of what a BB is! (Apples & oranges)
    No one here is advocating giving BBs to people just for showing up, are they?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
  5. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    But this misses the exact point IMHO. ;) For arguments sake, we have to assume that the training is legitimate & the promotion is deserved, so we can focus on the standards, NOT how the standard is applied!
    In the end this is impossible to do, as there are simply different standards. So "A" wants to critique the BB students of "X", based on "A's" conception of what a BB must be.
    That is why this is a pointless debate that will forever go in circles :bang:
     
  6. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Valued Member

    Well, I figured since we were talking about Taekwon-Do, and Stuart, myself, you and some others are ITF/Chang Hun types it might help to see what Gen. Choi said about what a I dan means.

    People are free to agree or disagree but if you're a Chang Hun stylilst it seems silly (to me) to say Chang Hun himself (let's not forget that was Gen. Choi's pen name) was wrong about his own style.

    Indeed. I have seen many high quality ITF schools over the years, and I have seen some ITF schools that obviously don't place as high of a standard on their students. But comparing them to schools from another style seems problematic, to say the least.

    Pax,

    Chris
     
  7. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes there is way too much fraud in present day commercial MAs IMHO! TKD being the most popular or the MA with the most students, certainly leads the way. But I don't think this is a critique of standards, but a lack of standards. I see even in ITF schools, far too many sell BB & not hold the candidate up to the high standards set by the founder. 2 different issues IMHO
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Not really. Certainly didn't involve actually dealing with an overtly aggressive individual (with all the associated posturing, swearing, body language etc) or anything like that.
    And I'm of the mind that mental training is only really possible through hard physical training. Everything else is just lip service.
    What constitutes mental training in the martial arts is a whole other thread. :)
    I was merely countering that my (off the top of my head) list of BB requirements were largely physical in nature when they aren't.

    Agreed. I'm not talking about mysticism but actual concrete skill and application powered by some mental fortitude and resolve built over years of hard training. Having the knowledge and maturity to not just do a technique physically but why it's done that way, how it can be used etc.

    Good typo! :)
    Of course that's true. It's why they are called elite or special forces.
    Again...I was merely using the SAS winged dagger or the maroon berret for the symbolic nature of gaining entry to that "club" and what people know of a person that has done it.
    You know right away that even someone that has gone through basic army training is generally a cut above most when it comes to physical fitness and mental fortitude.
    You know that someone that goes through SAS selection is a cut above almost everyone in those areas.
    You can't really say the same for some 11 year old kid that has gone through 5 years of TKD and can do the physical requirements.

    By way of comparison...my Shidokan brown belt grading was probably harder (physically and mentally) than all the gradings I did to get my TKD BB (including the coloured belt gradings!).
    The prospect of trying for a Shidokan BB fills me with trepidation. :)
     
  9. Razgriz

    Razgriz Valued Member

    Fair enough,

    I think the discussion should be more then about raising the standard of BB across the board, than individual pereceptions of what a BB "should" be according to thier opinion be it on practicality or not.

    But ofc as mentioned this needs to be in line with whats in the bible (the ITF one, not the fairy tale one)
    as that is the standard we should work to?

    Raz
     
  10. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Valued Member

    I'd have to disagree. Many martial arts styles are supposed to be "delivery systems" for a whole host of non-physical skills, lessons, etc. But the vast majority of class time is spent in very physical training. I don't think this is an accident.

    A lot of learning in Taekwon-Do, like a lot of communication, takes place in a round about manner. A lot can be learnd outside the class, of course, but the main method of instruction is the physical training itself.

    Pax,

    Chris
     
  11. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    No of course not, but they are mental activities related to physical violence in preparation for SD or to aid injury after the SD battle.
    See in order to debate efficiently we have to define terms 1st & better, if not we are comparing apples & oranges.
    To me & in the ITF, the mental side is moral culture, the philosophy of great people & leaders who preceded us & their examples, the tenets & attitudes about building better character as part of creating a more peaceful society, starting with oneself.
    (My concept is not meant to be better, just different. It is the teaching of Gen. Choi & what he left us TKD for!)
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Heh...careful now. I got my BB with the largest TKD association in Britain. Calling them frauds is probably a bit much. :)
    Personally I just think I didn't have to do or know enough to warrant getting a BB but fulfilled exactly what they expected of me.
     
  13. chrispillertkd

    chrispillertkd Valued Member

    Interesting. Have you received mental training in Shidokan, then?

    I agree with you that mental training is tied to hard physical training. That's why I was surprised that you seemed not to have experienced any when you were in Taekwon-Do. I've experienced it a lot.

    Pax,

    Chris
     
  14. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes I agree! To me it is so clear to see that you can't cross compare. I don't say one is better than the other, just different, as they can have different goals, focus, emphasis & methods!
     
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Not really. The ways things are done in the things I train aren't always the way I'd do it if I was in charge. :)
    But that said...just getting up to do a Shidokan grading is a mental lesson in an of itself.
     
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    No but some are saying that it's OK for kids to get them so long as they achieve the requirements laid down.
    I'm saying that if they can the requirements need some work. :)
     
  17. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    I know this is off topic :topic:
    But the Bible has been called the greatest book ever written. :Angel:
    It was as I understand it, the only book mass produced way before they had printing presses, as it was done by hand. In fact sine there were no books, most people could not read. Once the printing press came, the push came for people to read so they could buy & read what was being printed! Prior to the printing press, people would learn about the stories, lessons & teachings in the Bible by word of mouth, through preachers etc.
    Now even if there is no G-d, it has been said that it is still the best book to live your life by! I find it sad that more people do not see the wisdom in the "great book" :confused:
    In TKD, the tenets are all traits that every religion could embrace & that you will find ample examples of in the Bible. :love:

    This is how we build a more peaceful world
     
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Only by christians that skip over the nasty bits.
    Ask your average Muslim or Jew if they think the bible is the best book to live their lives by.
    If yoy think the bible is the best book to live you need to read more books mate. :)
     
  19. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes & many market it as such, but then we go back to the physical level required for a BB, being physically centered, which is problematic.
    In ITF TKD it is the diligent pursuit of the physical demanding requirements that help lead to the mental or spirit of TK-D, hence the dash (-) hyphen in how we spell Taekwon-Do, as it is the physical (Taekwon) that leads to the "DO"!
     
  20. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Yes & in your case you are probably right, as your training & testing did not fit your sense of what a BB should be.
    I am glad that your cross training has given you more satisfaction.
     

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