I'm afraid I have to agree with aikiMac on this one. I too remember those bits in the bible where Jesus said to screw thy neighbour in the name of greater profits, and charged people for loaves, and fishes, and healing. Of course even then it was all in US dollars because God is an American.
Pgsmith: "That's what Jesus said." Pope: "That ain't what Jesus said." Chadderz: "Pgsmith >> the Pope as authority on what Jesus said!" Wait, what?
My guess is that the advocacy of Pope Francis would fall firmly in line with what WCrane has defined as socialism.
You have to be the pope in order to be able to accurately quote sentences from the bible. Otherwise it's apparently impossible.
Really? :bang:Forgive me if I sound off and am impatient with this- but seriously people? Well, while some of you are nitpicking whether Jesus was a socialist or not, I thought I would maybe bring things back to remembering the horror of what happened. How about a moment to learn about the victims? This was a really nice piece I found when wanting to know more about them. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2yDxc85zG0"]CNN's emotional tribute to Orlando shooting victims - YouTube[/ame] There is no denying that a huge part of the bigotry GLBT people face (and have faced throughout history) has been and still is done in the name of several organized Religions. Organized religions will take their non-profit status money and use it to politically fight against GLBT rights. (One example would be how the Mormon Church actively fought against Gay marriage in California - raising tons of money to do so.) I grew up Roman Catholic. And the whole love the sinner but not the sin stuff? You have NO idea how it makes you grow up with a internalized message that you are bad and no good in your very core. No wonder so many GLBT people turn to suicide or self medication with substance abuse. The message of the RC Church towards GLBT people caused me a LOT of personal pain. Or like the whole thing as I was growing up put out by the Catholic Church - "It's ok to be Gay as long as you don't practice it." Really? I have an old button somewhere "It's ok to be Catholic as long as you don't practice it." See how ridiculous that sort of fake separation is? If you are something in your very core, you can't pretend it is something separate from you. To say being GLBT is a sin is to say that your very core essence as a human being is a sin. Imagine being told that as a straight person. Think about it. Imagine being attracted to the opposite gender, falling in love, and then being told -imagine- that that is a bad sinful part of you. And as long as you ignore it completely you are an o.k. person - but if not you are bad. Try and separate that "sinful" part of you from who you are every time you see an attractive person walk by. You really think you could live with the message "herosexuality is a sin" and keep it separate from who you are at your core being? See how ridiculous that sort of statement is? I honestly struggle in my life. To not turn around and judge all people of a religion when so many leaders of Churches and religious organizations use their money to fight against my civil rights. When growing up as a mainstream Roman Catholic household caused me all sorts of pains in my life. It would be easy to let the actions of some spurn my anger with a wider net. But I refuse to give in to the same sort of bigotry used against me. And if I judge all people of certain religions that way, I am no better than the anti-GLBT bigots. I will not be dragged down to their level. I refuse. I have to remind myself, it isn't everyone. That plenty of people use religion to live a life of love and acceptance and better themselves. IMO, a lot of it is extremism -religious extremism in this case- that is the danger. The thing is, the extremists are out there in larger numbers than people want to believe. Extremism makes many people think of a fringe small group, but the religious extremists are multiple groups of large powerful forces and they are dangerous. And sometimes, it is extremists that have too much influence in a non-extremist group. Take my previous example- The Mormon Church- not some extremist sect of it fought against GLBT people, but many members objected to it. Not every Mormon is anti-GLBT.https://shadowproof.com/2008/11/29/mormons-losing-members-over-anti-gay-campaigns/ Finding the balance, to fight them, to acknowledge how widespread they are, but still, not to cast all people of a faith as being in this group- it's tricky. It isn't easy to sort out, but I believe we must make the effort to do so. Or we become just as hate filled and bigoted as what we fight. But to those who don't want to acknowledge the role of organized religions- including Christianity- in being against GLBT people, well- you simply need to do more research into history. It isn't as simple as quoting a bible and saying "Jesus said so, so the discrimination in the name of Jesus never happened." There is some responsibility to take to weed out and fight the bigotry within your religion- not to passively stand by. I have done so myself. When I was active in the both Pagan and GLBT community, I stood up and fought against bigotry against Christianity. It wasn't easy, especially because I understood it usually came from past rejections based on bigotry from various religious communities, but I did it. You have to stand up for what is right, where ever you are. You have to fight bigotry, isms, whatever you call it wherever you find it and not turn a blind eye and pretend it isn't there because it doesn't fit your ideal view of that community should be. It is complicated.
It does not strike me as something needing moderator action. I can have personal feelings on a thread discussion. My personal opinion as a member is that when 49 people die, and over 50 are wounded, it is a stupid petty tangent for this time and place- i.e. thread. But it breaks no TOS and as a mod- people are allowed to go off into tangents- even ones I dislike.
Ah right, well in that case Jesus most definitely was a socialist. The man literally gave his life for other people. Although technically he did come back so does that count?
I really liked this commentary by out Lesbian Comedian and actress Lea Delaria. I agree with most of it. This event does remind all GLBT people that we are still in a world where being who we are can be very dangerous. With all our progress, it was easy to feel safer than perhaps we should have been feeling. And yet to take some hope from it too. Yeah, good stuff! [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rB-33B86VA"]DeLaria's raw emotion over Orlando shooting - YouTube[/ame]
No commentary on current news would be complete without the mention of Jesus Christ our Lord, I suppose.
The horror of what happened has been reported on a 24 hour loop since it happened. So much so, that 'Orlando', the theme park capital of the world, is now synonymous with that event. It was a terrible tragedy, an appalling act of hate and just another day in a country with a complete lack of perspective on what is important. That said, I think its out of line to suggest that a thread spiralling off on a tangent (something that is even more characteristic of this place than martial arts are) indicates that we have forgotten anything.
Please don't put words in my mouth unless you're willing to stick your hand up my backside and move my mouth while you do it. I don't think he's a whacko for tweeting bible verses, as that's just catering to the radical evangelistic right wing that makes him money. I think he's a whacko for all of the other idiotic things he has done since he's been in office. 1900 years of Bible tradition? Have you actually read the bible? Do you have any idea what it actually says, as opposed to what the (super wealthy) televangelists would have you believe? If you call yourself a Christian, then you believe that Jesus Christ was mankind's savior, and you follow his teachings. Kind of hard to do that if you've never actually read what he had to say isn't it? Sorry about the tangent, but it's this type of misguided thinking that leads to hatred and tragedies such as this one.
