One Punch, One Kill Falacy: Kenpo Closer to Original Karate?

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by DAnjo, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    but but but...he started it...ahahaha
  2. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    You big brawny beast :)
  3. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Thanks Sigung!
  4. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    you guys all suck :(
  5. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I am promoting myself to Pupule Professor by the end of the month. So that title will reign for just a little while longer. That is at least until MAP bans the word Pupule as well.


  6. Hapki-jutsu

    Hapki-jutsu Valued Member

    "In a sense, things have been "spelled out for Americans." Don't get me wrong, I'm talking about the differences in culture here. In Japan, for instance, it is understood that you can't just learn from seeing something, you have to experience it and ask the right questions. It would not be uncommon, from what I know, for Japanese students to be concerned about details such as how tense is the butt/anus when applying a technique... Now how many Americans would even ask if the butt is tense or not during a technique? Now you know you can't see if it is... right?"

    in my experience its exactly the opposite. in old school japanese arts students were not allowed to ask questions at all. they had to learn for themselves. westerners ask too many questions and dont spend enough time figuring things out for themselves. infact i've heard many japanese sensei say that very thing. one sensei told me he demonstrated a technique 3 times...once you watch the footwork, one you watch the hands...and the 3rd you watch the overall body. then you just do try it for yourself and you dont continue until you get it, no matter how long it takes.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2008
  7. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Well, tight anuses aside, you make some good points.

    We black belts share the begginer instruction at our school on a rotational basis. I can't believe how few people practice what I we show them at home and yet expect to be moved along in rank etc. as if they were putting in the effort! You can tell right off how many listen to your advice. I tell them to practice five to ten minutes per day the techniques etc., just to keep what they have been shown fresh etc., but it's clear that when they return, they have not done anything since they left.

    On the other hand, if you don't explain and correct form, the students often get a false impression of how well they are doing. Those without that natural athletic ability tend to think they are correctly imitating what they are looking at when they aren't.
  8. Hapki-jutsu

    Hapki-jutsu Valued Member

    very well said. i think trying to teach a bunch of illinoisans in a japanese manner would yield terrible results(though i admit i never really tried, or seen it).

    thats one of the things i liked most about the various kempo arts....theyre american (or at least western) from the get go. not originally maybe...but you know what i mean. arts like karazenpo and kajukenbo...etc

    some people ask me for japanese terms for something, others don't care. i tend to not care because i don't speak japanese.

    teaching people is a weird business...what makes sense to you might be german to me. you know one thing that always really annoyed me was..."why?"..."why?"..."why?" ...or "how EXACTLY did you do that?"...just try it for cryin outloud and you'll figure it out, and if you are having some problems i'll be glad to help. rather they want an exact step by step explanation...does my foot go here or here? in the meantime they get punched in the face.

    i was always a training leave class and go home and have another 2-3 hours of personal training with friends and family. i guess in the end...not everyone is passionate about the arts as they could be.
  9. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    1 block, one punch, hit me 4 times?

    Recently spent some time with a very talented Isshin-ryu guy named John Kerker. Looking at applications of "inward block / punch".

    I punch with straight right reverse punch. he hit my right arm with his left forearm (block?) downward and inward slightly. Directly on my radil nerve OW! I throw a left hook, he extends that block, punching my square in the bicep (that hurt like crazy!). As I react to that, he retracts his left, back-fisting me in the short ribs under my right nipple (barely felt that). Finally, he hits me with a stright right to the same spot, dropping me to the floor.

    One punch? 4 hits.
  10. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Everything has a context. In the context of American culture, many go to practice and when class is over, what they learned is mostly put on hold until the next practice... like going to the gym to workout. In my understanding, Japanese culture included live-in students. There would be times, such as at the dinner table, when questions could be asked as well as stories and past experiences talked about. So although questions were not asked during practice, there were other times when questions were answered.

    In relation to this thread, Sensei learns from the students the same as the students learn from Sensei. If Sensei asks if anyone has questions, by students providing questions this can help Sensei learn as the answer is thought out and practiced.

    Questions do not have to be expressed in words. The majority of learning at various stages of practice is through experiencing application as uke.

    It is my experience as uke that I know it isn't one punch, one kill... it is the one vital strike among many. Only in simplest form does it break down to one punch only. However, I have also experienced that one starts with the simplest, moves on to the more complex, and in the end, goes back to the simplest... full circle.
  11. wires

    wires Valued Member

    knock out artists..

    One strike one kill only works if you are beating on an infant.

    Or a grandma.

    It is a great notion, but not very realistic when in emptyhand.

    However, the boxing knockout artist is a much more realistic version of this concept.
  12. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I don't know about the Japanese culture regarding sitting around the table and asking questions, but it is my understanding that Okinawan culture is much less formal in terms of training and Q & A. Also, Chinese culture was/is the same way (At least thoese that migrated to Taiwan). There are youtube videos of Hung I-Hsiang where it was said that every morning after Kung Fu practice, he and his students would sit around eating and drinking tea and talking about martial arts.

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