One Punch Deaths

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Simon, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    A friend of mine was attacked in a nightclub by a group. He dropped the lead assailant with a single punch from his non dominant hand because his dominant arm was in a sling because he'd had recent shoulder surgery. The rest of the group all testified that he'd just walked up and clocked the guy. Because he was a fighter he was convicted of aggravated actual bodily harm for a single punch.
  2. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Either side will latch onto what ever they can. Just the way the prosecution/defence works, if you can kill someone easily, why can't you restrain them or subdue them without leaving too much unneeded excess damage?

    God help you, if you decide to cause damage when you could have avoided it though.

    Kind of highlights the issue with Krav Maga and things like that.

    Only advice i can give for stopping false conviction si to get indie witnesses in the line of sight or carry a camera.
  3. Agoge

    Agoge Valued Member

    I have never seen any in my area where the "suspects" MA training played a part in the criminal trial -- if there was one.

    However, in civil trials, anything can be brought in by the plaintiffs -- up to and including the defendants training. As to how much that helps or hurts the trial is based upon one's "peers". I am finding juries to be more forgiving in these days and times when it comes to victims defending themselves from aggressors -- regardless of where the act occurred.
  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

  5. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    Just out of interest and curiosity (for educational purposes!). What would be the best targets to strike if you don't intend to cause any permanent/serious damage but would like the person to feel the most pain possible? The obvious ones like knockout (jaw/chin), liver, solar plexus/diaphragm are all dangerous targets??

    From my brief experience, low roundhouse to shin/thai stings and hurts like hell? Also, the best targets where there are no bruises/evidence left?
  6. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    If it really comes down to having to defend yourself you can't be half hitting someone, or striking where it can't cause a visible injury.

    In these circumstances you are either in the right or in the wrong, which is why in extreme circumstances you can cause even fatal injuries and remain on the good side of the law.

    Fortunately the chances of having to get to this stage is highly unlikely and that's why self defence covers everything from avoidance right up to dealing with multiple attackers.

    If you fear leaving a bruise chances are you've over reacted and before it was necessary.

    You are within your rights to hit someone and leave a bruise, break a nose or worse if you are acting legally.

    That said don't under estimate open hand strikes.

    hurt like hell and removes the chance of broken bones in your hand.
  7. kandi

    kandi Valued Member

    Why cause the most pain possible? Surely you want to do enough for the fight to be over (Assuming this is SD) and then leave. Best going for the solar plexus (wind them), groin (pain) or eyes (don't recommend this... but it will freak some people out). A knock to the jaw/chin runs the risk of them smacking their head on the ground when their lights going out, so I'd never do that unless I thought my life was in danger.

    As for no bruises... you'd want to avoid fleshy places with lots of blood supply. That leaves joints, but that causes serious injury at times. There isn't an easy answer here.
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well I don't completely agree Simon. My little brother once had someone try and rob him. The guy didn't have a knife so my little brother threw the hardest leg kick he could. The guy fell over and couldn't walk.

    Also, if you are only a striker and you need to put down your drunk uncle at the family barbecue.
  9. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Nothing wrong with the above.

    We are closer to agreeing than you maybe thought.

    I have no issue with punching someone and squashing their nose across their face if it is called for.
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah but kicking him in the legs was probably better than punching him, knocking him unconscious and killing him by accident.
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Can't argue with that.

    I did once kick someone and didn't do a great job.

    I ended up with a punch in the face by the other guy who was wearing a big gold ring.

    If I was going to kick someone now it would have to be a fight ending kick just like your brother did.
  12. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I know, now comes the big head shaking and some will think I shouldn't be in the conversion, since - and now the important thing: I never wwas in real fight so far.
    Oh, and yes, I'm glad, I didn't and I admit that.
    I also admit: I'm not a fan of the "On the street I would do this and that"-talk; most people I hear talking like that... let's just say, even I doubt they would do anything of use.

    What I think though: If I were to come into a situation, where I really have to defend myself*, I do hope that this: That I wouldn't hamper myself, by thinking about consequences, but that I would "hit right".
    (All given that I really would be able to do something. )
    Pretty much as Simon said here:
    *and I mean "Really" have to do so. I don't mean the drunk cousin on a party or the dude begging for money.
    In that case I would hope, to be able to act controlled enough.

    Don't get me wrong: The whole carried by six isn't ideal thinking for me at all!
    But if I were to keep thinking: "God, if you hit him now, he could fall, and ..." when someone is trying to beat my head in, I (for others it might be different) could just as well lie down and wait until it's over.

    Seriously: Am I the only one who thinks actually hitting the groin is difficult.

    Again, I can't talk from personal experience, but even during practice we stand sideways all the time, so the groin is a bit protected already by doing nothing.
    In real fights people can't be so dumb, to stand with the legs apart.

    Sure, you can try and make them move into a position where this might work, but that goes for everything else as well.

    I have bruises on my elbow joints all the time.
    Due to Ukemi funny enough: I fall great and everything, but the thick seam of my Uwagi at times lies right where I fall :rolleyes:

    At the wrists I bruise easily as well; just now both my wrists are black and blue :D
  13. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I've been in one altercation since I started training and nobody was harmed. I'm that good at self defence. :D
  14. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Did you cry?
    Or pee on yourself?
    And made the other go that way?

    My teacher tell me, crying won't count, so I never got to test it.

  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It all depends, doesn't it? If the target is available, go for it, if it isn't, go for one that is.

    The "standing sideways" thing though; most aggressors I've seen don't think about defending themselves. They are dominating the other person and don't usually spend time to think "what if my sucker punch/headbutt doesn't drop them?", they go in presuming that they will batter the other guy. It's not like sparring where there is give-and-take.
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    This is where personal specialisation comes in, isn't it?

    If person A consistently drops people in sparring with leg kicks, then leg kicks are a viable technique for them. If person B struggles to get a consistent reaction from leg kicks, then they will be a low percentage technique for them.
  17. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    That goes without saying.

    My teacher stood in front of the class once, normally.
    And asked one student to come and try to kick him between the legs - he didn't need much moving to partially protect himself anyway.

    Of course it was to show something, so the student didn't kick full force or anything.

    I think I still don't believe it to be as easy as some people make it out to be.
    But again - I wasn't in a real fight so far.
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It's easy to defend most things when you know what your opponent will do before hand.

    How easy anything is depends on your opponent. Groin shots certainly aren't the guarantee fight-enders that some people sell them as, but they are good techniques to keep in your toolbox, as much for defending against them as delivering them.
  19. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    That's for sure.
    If there is is an opportunity it would be rather daft not to at least try it.
  20. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    In 20 years of putting hands on people in and out of training I've been hit in the groin probably 25 times. Only one connected solidly enough to put me out of action immediately (sparring thankfully) and one more which I didn't feel until afterward. As Lakitos said it's crazy not to try, but no one should think that any single shot to any target will necessarily put an opponent down.

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