Sorry, I have to disagree with this one, but out of respect to the OP, maybe we should discuss it off-line or in another thread, if you don't mind.
Picking up on this -- details will vary depending on whom you ask, but the common ground will be something about "faith" in the fundamental Christian claim that Jesus both died and rose from the dead for the forgiveness of sins. Theologically, faith in the Christian God comes from the activity of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit obviously strikes at the activity of the Holy Spirit. Thus, whatever the details may be, when the Holy Spirit is rejected or otherwise blocked, faith is at best compromised. It is likely non-existing. Without faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus there is no forgiveness; hence, Jesus' strong statement about not being forgiven. For as long as one denies the activity of the Holy Spirit, there is no forgiveness. Hence, Jesus spoke of this lifetime. Opportunity for forgiveness stops at death. Thus, Jesus also spoke of the life to come.
When I hear things like this, I shudder. Some guy makes a comment like that to you and your folks however-many-years ago, and it still has an affect on you today. I cringe when I think that guy is going to have to give an account before Almighty God for what he said. A friend and I were once talking about how some people don't want to have anything to do with God because of all the hypocrites they see in some religious circles. My friend's response was, "If a hypocrite is standing between you and God, then the hypocrite is closer to God than you are." I guess the point was that, with or without hypocrites, false witnesses, and people just saying some dumb stuff, we are still responsible for seeking God and responding to His call to us.
So, Aiki, is what you're saying that the sin is unpardonable only as long as someone continues in it (i.e., continues in unbelief)? In that case, someone wouldn't be doomed for having committed it once, but only for continuing in it, and they could be forgiven as soon as they reject their former unbelief. Am I following you?
I was christened C of E instead so it did work out to bad. The priest was a C of E covert and wouldn't Christen me because my Mum and Dad were Married in a registry office and said I had been born out of wedlock because the catholic church didn't recognise the marriage. He wouldn't bless the wedding because my Dad had been married before, that was also in a registry office and seemed to count this time. Doesn't seem to make sense to me.
MJ, all I can say is, 'Wow!'. There is a program that started in the UK ( although it's spread all over the world now). It's called the 'Alpha Program', and it is designed to help people find out what basic Christianity is all about, as opposed to one denomination or another. If you are interested in getting a better view of what Christianity is about (and not just the religious/traditional stuff), you might want to find any church near you that offers it and check it out.
There is a program that started in the UK ( although it's spread all over the world now). It's called the 'Alpha Program', and it is designed to help people find out what basic Christianity is all about, as opposed to one denomination or another. If you are interested in getting a better view of what Christianity is about (and not just the religious/traditional stuff), you might want to find any church near you that offers it and check it out.[/QUOTE] Thanks but I study RE in school and believe that you don't need to go to any organised religion to be a good Christian. Thank you again.
Yes, assuming that they don't die first. That's my interpretation. Like you said, different people see it differently, but like I said, I've never heard an interpretation that didn't somehow involve faith in the resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Respectfully, you might have missed the point, MJ. Capt Ann has said on MAP that she doesn't believe you need to go to any organized religion to be a good Christian. And that's the point of Alpha. In the gospel of John, Jesus is presented with a woman who committed sexual sins. His response to her was to forgive her sins and send her home in peace with the admonition that she do things differently from now on. Whether her behavior should have been classified as sin is not the point of that Bible story. The point of that story is how Jesus responded to her (and to her critics, too).
In the gospel of John, Jesus is presented with a woman who committed sexual sins. His response to her was to forgive her sins and send her home in peace with the admonition that she do things differently from now on. Whether her behavior should have been classified as sin is not the point of that Bible story. The point of that story is how Jesus responded to her (and to her critics, too).[/QUOTE] Didn't he marry her have children then send them off to Euro-disney (France anyway) or am I watching too much TV? and if I need to visit a church to learn about Alpha then isn't that organised?
Well that still applies to me. I was a very strong Christian for many years when I was in my younger teen years. I was touched by the holy spirit, I read and was touched by the word of God, I had a personal relationship with Jesus and prayed to him often. Then I rejected every single bit of it as I studied science, philosophy, and logic. So it seems I'm still condemned, and thus the issue is still relevent - why would anyone bother to change my mind if I am never to be forgiven?
Perhaps they interpret your frequent involvement in religious discussions as an indication that you still care about God. As long as you still care, there is a flicker of hope for you (from their perspective) because maybe that Hebrews verse hasn't fully kicked in.
Well, I 'll still be praying for you and respectfully discussing with you and saying just as much about Jesus Christ as you're willing to hear, because it's not up to me to decide if you've passed some 'line' or not. If you had passed the 'line' I would think you would be so hardened and indifferent to the whole discussion that you wouldn't even bother asking the question, even as a logical exercise. But that's just my opinion. From what AikiMac wrote, he sees it more as a question of your present condition: do you believe in (trust wholly in, rely upon) Jesus Christ as Lord, savior, and God at this time? If so, then welcome to the family! If not, then you are doomed, only so long as you continue in that state of unbelief. So, he will probably keep praying for you and respectfully discussing with you, etc., and when you do turn to belief, he will be one of the first to welcome you home! aside to AikiMac: Apologies in advance for the 'name-dropping', if I misrepresented your views.
You make a good point Ann. Even if this line does exist, who's to say whether or not someone has already past it? It'd make sense to error on the side of caution and hope that everyone still has a chance, and act accordingly.
I am kind of confused on this whole thing. If the unforgivible sin can be forgiven as long as you ask forgiveness, and you dont continue in it, doesn't that make it exactly like all other sins? I mean if this is the case arn't all sins unforgivable, why even call it unforgivable?
Fair point, but, you seem to have forgotten that the words of Jesus were not spoken in a vaccuum. They were spoken in response to something. Read the stories in Mark 3 and Matthew 12. The people to whom Jesus said these words were doing something particular. I think it matters very much what they were doing.
Done and done. I found this site would you give what I found here a read and get back to me on what you think? http://www.tgm.org/Blasphemy.htm It just sounds to me, like it has to do more with someone who believes and or someone who knows and does it anyway, and that once done can't be undone, hence, unforgiviable. That is why he silenced those men and said what he said, it may not have been spoken in a vaccum but, I think it was being explained in a general way, laying out the rule, letting them and all others know ....
Sure. Quote from that site: I don't have any problem with that interpretation. As I said in an earlier post, the Holy Spirit is the agent through which God works faith in a person's heart. To attribute the workings of the HS to the devil would certainly qualify as "blasphemy," and it would halt further activity of the HS. No more activity of the HS ---> no faith ---> unforgiven.
