On the killing of cane toads

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by komuso, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    Ok,

    so this is in response to a thread that I am having fun with on preparing for the long awaited z-day. A zombie apocalypse that basically legitimises some pretty serious ultra-violence. Which is, if I am honest with myself, part of the fundamental attraction of the idea. That and the comedy.

    It is why it is fun to hate orcs, slaughter hordes of two dimensional video game enemies, and play war games. And in my youth, I got to have first hand experience of how this can express itself.

    Where I grew up in Australia, a state called Queensland, we had a problem with an introduced species of toad, the cane toad. It was out competing the native lizards and marsupials, was toxic and killed predators, and could even nail the family pet by jumping into their water supply. They were even butt ugly to complete the picture. All of this combined to create a social climate that legitimised a kind of kill at all costs mentality when it came to cane toads, and resulted in some pretty nasty cruelty.

    Practically every teen aged boy I knew engaged in the sport of toad golf, to the extent that people had preferences in terms iof the kind of wood or iron they would use. Toads were clubbed, incinerated, hurled into the sea, run over, chopped up, and slaughtered with immense enthusiasm. We were, after all, doing the right thing. And this behaviour was in practical terms almost 100% universal amongst men growing up in the state for at least 20 years.

    It has been replaced by the ethical culling by refrigeration, but my guess is that the more primal version is happening at the front edge of the wave as they spread around the country.

    food for thought. I don't think I am a psychopath...?

    paul
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    I think you have an incomplete thought in there... are you saying your support the wanton and recreational destruction of the cane toad as opposed to it be ethically culled?

    It's pretty sad honestly. That whole statement is some bizarre bit of rationalization/justification for you behavior.

    If you find that sporting and fun then yes you have some serious issues. Not the least of which is the way in which you manage your environment. That you are attempting to tie your fantasy video gaming persona into the destruction of living creatures is... err... slightly wacked out. Really what you are attempting to do is justify killing animals and shore that up by stating what a pest they are. Eradicating a pest is one thing... turning it into some sort of sport on the level of a video game or modeling it after golf is beyond stupid.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  3. tonyv107

    tonyv107 Valued Member

    Not sure if serious.
     
  4. righty

    righty Valued Member

    I don't really understand what's going on here.

    First you mention zombies. Then video games. Then cane toad golf. Then to ethical killing.

    Not sure what your point is here. If there is one.
     
  5. liero

    liero Valued Member

    In QLD and northern NSW Cane toads continue to be a pest. They are like a cockroach that needs to be stomped. This is to maintain the biodiversity of Australian flora and fauna, no two ways about it.

    The only reasons golf is unethical is because it might not kill the toad straight away and that it's poisonous carcass might get lost and therefore eaten by native fauna.

    Think green slimey rats. You wouldn't let them infest your city.
     
  6. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    There's no disputing that cane toads need to be controlled, preferably eradicated, but there's also no excuse for wanton cruelty. I see nothing wrong in the average citizen killing them on sight provided it's done swiftly. The "refrigeration" method isn't really practical for the average person. Who wants to carry a bag of live toads home and put it in their fridge? Hitting them with a bat/stick whatever would be fine - just don't let them suffer. It's not their fault they're ugly - which is the main reason people hate them so much. Rabbits are a problem too, but they don't seem to arouse the same hatred as cane toads.
     
  7. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    No Slip.

    sorry, I obviously haven't been clear. I dont - in retrospect - think it was right at all. It was nasty. What I was reflecting on was the similarity between the justification for over the top violence that is provided by z-day and that which was applied to cane toads when I was growing up. What I was also pointing out that it is entirely possible for an entire society to slip into that mindset.

    By absolutely bo means a justification, more a meditation on some of the underlying reality behind some of the fantasy.

    Oh, and I very rarley play video games.

    paul
     
  8. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    No Slip.

    sorry, I obviously haven't been clear. I dont - in retrospect - think it was right at all. It was nasty. What I was reflecting on was the similarity between the justification for over the top violence that is provided by z-day and that which was applied to cane toads when I was growing up. What I was also pointing out that it is entirely possible for an entire society to slip into that mindset.

    By absolutely bo means a justification, more a meditation on some of the underlying reality behind some of the fantasy.

    Oh, and I very rarley play video games.

    paul
     
  9. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    ok got it. totally diff. than what I first understood. :p
     
  10. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I think that the OP raises a very good, and disturbing, point. Have we all got this rather sadistic urge that we keep in check until we get an excuse to let it out of the bag?

    Take the idea a step further, and consider how savagely people can treat other humans when they have been labelled the 'enemy'.
     
  11. liero

    liero Valued Member

    Rabbits eat food that could be eaten by other animals.

    Cane toads kill other animals when they poison water, Or when they are hunted and eaten.

    That and the ugly
     
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    A zombie for instance! Or worse..... COMMUNISTS!
     
  13. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    No worries Slip,

    I re-read the original post and got that a 'paul is a weird psycho' was one possible interpretation.

    On a bit of further reflection the thing that made the really cruel stuff possible was - oddly enough - the fact that we were sure that we were doing the right thing. The toads were basically painted as being totally evil, and it was seen as a duty to exterminate them.

    Sense of abiding righteousness + cause = potential for cruelty.

    We were, in essence, the anti-toad inquisition, or, alternatively anti-toad terrorists. It was the purity of our conviction that fuelled the excess.

    And Cahaddez, the Reds, where to start... ;-)

    paul
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Yes. And then we become moderators.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA :D

    Mitch
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    This kind of reminds me a little of (when I was told about) Chairman Mao Ze-Dong's culling of Sparrows. The reason being is that the Sparrows were eating grains and seeds from the fields, so an order was given out that rewards were given out for the volume of kills.
    After a few years they realised that the Sparrows also ate bugs and worms that were also near the seeds. Without the Sparrows there was an ecological imbalance and the crops died and the obvious after effects followed.

    My roundabout question is, what is it that killing cane toads brings? Self satisfaction? Is this still going on? Is it basically just a past-time?

    (insert - a poster on the campaign to kill Sparrows)
     

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  16. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    Cane toads were introduced to eat cane beetles but that didn't work, they have no part in the native ecosystem though a few creatures have started to eat them and survive the poison that kills most predators. So the problem is they eat native animals that have no evolved defence of them, and they are poisonous to animals that may prey on them, they are also somewhat destructive to the environment. They are expanding across the country and destroying natural ecosystems so they need to be eradicated, but not by playing golf.
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Cheers for that.

    In London there is regular pigeon culling, authorised pest controllers who basically go and shoot pigeons at a certain place at a certain time.
    There is currently a seriously increased population level of foxes where I live. They havent attacked anyone yet, but recently there was a well publicised story earlier in the year in another part of the UK where a fox got into a families home and mauled a baby. So there is discussion about what to do with them here in my area.

    (note this is different than the Fox Hunting 'sport' that is contraversial over here)
     
  18. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    Australia culls kangaroos every once in a while. Usually get some flak for it from international journalists who don't realise it has to be done. Myxomatosis has been used to thin out the rabbit population.

    Compared to that, clubbing a cane toad doesn't sound so bad. A properly-whacked toad would die instantly.

    Mushroom: That's an interesting grip the boy's using for his slingshot! And yes, traditional fox hunting (mauled to death by hounds) is vastly different to a clean shot by a professional.
     
  19. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    It's a fairly solid comparison really, isn't it? There is little questions that controlled culls can help to stabilise a fragile ecosystem, but that doesn't mean you should turn it into a game.
     
  20. StevieB8363

    StevieB8363 Valued Member

    I think he's pointing out the difference between a professional "cull" and the traditional fox hunt - which is far too inefficient to be a means of pest control. A few dozen dogs to kill one fox - and what exactly do all those drunken riders achieve? I agree it shouldn't be a game, and the traditional hunt seems ridiculous to me - not to mention inhumane.
     

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