Does this scare anybody else?! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvSNg0HZwk"]Milgram, 2009 reenactment[/ame]
besides, the milgram experiment is tame. it's really one of the lightest things you can show about this subject
Human behaviour is entirely predictable so of course it is a science. Why do you think every aspect of our so called Free society is manipulated to believe and think whatever the authority desires. The Bear.
pretty much every war in history? pretty much a LOT of human history? people obey authority, that's a known fact, and has been known for thousands of years. people also do nasty stuff, particularly if the consequences for said acts are nullified. this is also a fact that has been known for thousands of years. 2+2=4. for more concrete examples, the rape of nanking and unit 731 (not to be investigated by the faint of heart. not joking here) will show you why milgram's experiments on obedience to authority are a walk in the park in the areas of what people will do when ordered. while we're at it, and not to play the anti-japanese card, we could also mention the crews that bombed hiroshima and nagasaki. would YOU fly a plane and drop a bomb that kills thousands if you were in their shoes?
I thought you meant there had been other psychological studies that revealed even more extreme trends of obedience. History is full of such examples I know, unit 731 was indeed a horror show. I remember reading about it when I was young, probably not something an 11 year old should be reading about but hey, it was in a magazine I had. Horse urine injected into your kidneys?! I'll always remember that one. It's not just recent history either, I mean Darius of Persia crucified 3000 Babylonians in one day around 500 BC. He didn't do it himself either. He had his obedient little thugs to do it for him. Which is the point of this thread really, the consequences of obedience to authority. In answer to your question, no, I would not have dropped any bombs. I don't take part in the mass murder of women and children no matter what the reason given. In terms of it being inevitable (obedience), I don't believe this to be true. I think it is somewhat manufactured by society. It is a symbiotic relationship between authority and the governed, many of which consider real consciousness and the responsibility it brings as a burden. Thus they subconsciously desire to hand over their destiny to others. Is anyone familiar with "The Undiscovered Self" by Jung? It outlines very well the struggle between the individual and the mass as well as the consequences of "mass movements" and the "mass man". One of the best books ever written, short too.
If you're after that sort of thing, here's one that springs to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment I'm sure there's far worse than that, too. We're a pretty sick species when we're at our worst.
Where do rule breakers fit into these studies? Best way to get me to do something is to tell me I can't do it. Might be useful for me to find out although possibly a little late
Cheers fish, I'm familiar with Zimbardos study, did it for A Level back in the day. I'll be looking into the psychological nature of obedience over the course of the week, I'll relay anything interesting I find. Moi, of the 40 people in the Milgram experiment "Only one participant steadfastly refused to administer shocks below the 300-volt level."
Well that in itself is entirely predictable, so you are just a controllable as the rule followers. They just use different leverage. The Bear.
I'm only musing here, but IMO people are more inclined adopt this "don't do what I'm told" attitude in situations they perceive as being confrontational or adversarial. People seem more likely to co-operate and do what they're told in a situation where others are co-operating with them. I wonder how many of the participants in the Milgram experiment would have been so ready to co-operate if the actors playing scientists had been instructed to be dictatorial / abrasive / threatening.
Personally I think people will do a lot worse things when they are told the responsibility isn't theirs. On a smaller scale I see this in the workplace all the time, people doing tasks that they know will be detrimental yet they do it because it won't come back to them.
The scientists if questioned simply said, repeatedly, "The experiment requires you continue". This is an important point, they were using the mythic nature of science (in the sense that science functions as one of the social myths of progress) to coerce people into obedience. In short, they were using peoples instilled preconceptions which is why the rate of obedience is so high. It was entirely impersonal, one could even say ideological. Diffusion of responsibility... or as real people name it, moral cowardice.
