Nutrition

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Saz, Apr 14, 2002.

  1. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    I try to follow a high carb, low fat diet, eating a lot of stuff like pasta, chicken, fruit n veg etc. Recently, I've seen stuff on nutrition that advocates a lower carb, higher fat diet, with no fruit at all in it. I know that protein is a good thing in both cases, but which of these would be more of an beneficial diet for a martial artist to follow? I'm leaning towards sticking with high carbs and low fat, but thats mostly out of habit.

    I'd appreciate any views you have on this topic

    Osu :)
     
  2. Jack

    Jack Valued Member

    Kyokushin, personally I would say stick with the high carb/low fat.

    Fat has twice as many calories.
    Fat instantly puts on as stored energy, no chance of burning it off quickly.
    Fat is a lot harder to access when needed than Carbohydrates
    Fat metabolises poorly.
     
  3. GICKER

    GICKER Banned Banned

    hi carbs make you fat give this number aring 0800 0373515
     
  4. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi protein, low carb & fat works best - for me. I suggest you experiment & see what works for YOU. Hey - The JKD diet! [:D]

    For ME I have found that minimising complex processed carbs and eating a high protein diet woks best. If I do eat starchy carbs I tend to eat them early in the day if I can - I also try to eat good quality protein with every meal - and I eat at least six times a day. Keep those fires burning!
     
  5. GICKER

    GICKER Banned Banned

    1863 DRD Harvey's program minimizing carbohydrates achieves weight loss (and excellent health)

    1944 DR Blake Donaldson proves with radio isotope that carbohydrates are immediately converted to bodyfat.

    1955 Insulin found to convert carbohydrates to bodyfat.

    1956 Dr's Parven and Kekwick independently confirm that carbohydrates are immediately converted to bodyfat.

    Q What is the body's preferred energy source?
    A IT'S your own BODYFAT.

    AT least 60% of people who suffer heart attacks do not have elevated cholesterol levels.

    We can,t assume cholesterol is responsible just because ti is found at the site.

    2000 Journal of Cardiovascular risk reports Stanford Universtiy study carbohydrates found to raise the risk of cardiovascular disease (Americans are not given the results.
     
  6. mattsylvester

    mattsylvester One proud daddy!

    Have you got an example of what you might eat in one day? How do you manage to eat so often? Do you work somewhere it is easy to do so? How come you're not as chubbed out as me? :0)

    I won't be able to make the seminar this weekend but I'm still hoping to be able to make the one later this year (getting people to share the drive is proving hard :0)).
     
  7. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hi Matt

    My job is such that if I want to eat - I eat.

    Here's a typical day at the moment (I'm cutting weight at the moment).

    7am - 5g Creatine ; Multivitamin, small protein shake

    10am - Chicken sandwiches, 1g Glucosamine

    1pm - Club sandwich

    3:30pm - Protein shake or a tin of tuna, multivitamin, 500mg Glucosamine

    5:30pm - Turkey & Rice

    7:30pm - post workout shake if I've been to the gym (Protein, creatine, glutamine)

    Before bed - glass of red wine
     
  8. khafra

    khafra New Member

    If you were bulking, would you have some caseinate or soy and flaxseed or olive oil with the wine?
     
  9. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    ..... No - I would have another EAS Myoplex shake. At 280cals & 42g Protein they hit the spot!
     
  10. Tommy_P

    Tommy_P New Member

    Actually some of this depends on your specific goals. Lose weight? Gain muscle? Maintainance?.
    Generally I wouldn't think that a martial artist would need a diet any different than anyone else, maybe someone else has a different opinion. Healthy eating is whats important and then eating for your specific goals.

    My personal "way of eating" is what I consider healthy and it remains the same whether I want to gain weight or lose. All I do is alter how much I take in or add some more of one thing or another (or subtract) depending on my goal at the time.

    Genearally I recomend/prefer low carb (not NO carb) diets for losing and maintanance. For gaining I add in some "whole" grains.


    Here is a sample day of food consumption taken from one day last week. Keep in mind that at present I am trying to add some muscle mass so my carbs are high (for me) and I'm also eating a bit more. Still, My weight gain is slow, and thats what I want so as not to add fat. I am currently gaining only 1 lb every 2 weeks or so. This shows how although I am consuming a large amount of food it's all being utilized. there's no "junk" in there. no processed foods! .

    Here goes:
    Meal (1) 1 serving of steel cut organic oatmeal.
    2 tbsp. ground flax sead (meal)
    1/4 cup raisins
    1/2 cup cottage cheese (low fat)
    1/4 cup blueberries
    A handfull of seeds (pumpkin or sunflower) raw


    Meal (2) Almond butter & jelly (natural)
    2 slices of sprouted wheat bread
    1 banana


    Meal (3) 5 oz Georgetown farms buffalo burger
    1/2-3/4 cup? Whole grains (brown rice, quinoa or barley)
    1 large salad (romain, mixed greens, 1/2 cup raw broc, 7-9 grape tomatoes).
    Newmans own olive oil & viniger dressing
    1 Tbsp flax oil or olive oil.
    Strawberries


    Meal (4) Pasta w/ 2-3 meat balls & sauce (4oz meat, aprx.)
    Only had this since my wife made it...it's rare that I eat white pasta.
    3/4 cup spinach
    seeds
    1 peach


    Meal (5) 9oz chicken breast (George Foreman grill)
    1 cup brown rice
    1-2 cups broccoli (maybe 1-1/2)
    1 Nectarine
    (6-8?) almonds)


    Meal (6) 6 oz. Tuna
    1 tbsp. spectrum flax oil mayo.
    1/2 cup whole grains
    almonds (8-10)


    2.5-3 quarts of water

    Obviously you wouldn't be eating this much but depending on your needs the outline is the same. I would recomend low carb, moderate protein and also take in some healthy fats (EFA's). Carbs from veggies "nutrient dense" fruits and only "whole" grains. As much of the fruit and veggies as you like. This is generally a healthy way of eating not a diet. If you are lifting weights then some adjustments would be necessary to fuel those workouts.

    Tommy
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2002
  11. mattsylvester

    mattsylvester One proud daddy!


    Hiya,

    What's Creatine and Glutamine? Are these 'muscle' shakes?
     
  12. khafra

    khafra New Member

    Short answer: Creatine is a chemical produced by your body, that helps muscle recovery.
    Medium answer: Short duration muscle power (15 seconds or less) is provided by adenosine triphosphate (ATP) yielding one phosphate molecule to release energy and become adenosine diphosphate. Creatine phosphate carries those extra phosphate molecules back to the adenosine diphosphate, so if you're supplementing with it you'll have a quicker recovery of short-term strength.
    Long answer: Ask somebody else, I'm not an organic chemist.

    Glutamine:
    Short answer: L-glutamine helps keep your muscles from being burned for energy.
    Medium answer: L-glutamine is an amino acid that's used in reasonably large quantities by your body during cardiovascular exercise. If you don't have any from dietary sources, your body will take it from your skeletal muscles, so taking a few grams before you work out is a good idea, especially if you're cutting.
    Long answer: Don't ask me. Do I look like a biochemistry major?
     
  13. energyboost

    energyboost New Member

    my whole diet is nothing but meat. I avoid red meat and pork but all other meat is game. I eat fish and chicken mostly and i cook it myself. On weekends I eat rice and whole wheat bread with whatever non red meat and cheese i can find. I usually eat 4 to 5 times a day and drink 2 quarts of water.
     
  14. epimetheus

    epimetheus New Member

    Posted by Jack:

    Fat does have almost twice as many calories. 9 per gram rather than the 4 that carbs have.

    However, Fat is not instantly stored as energy. Nor is dietary fat instanly made into bodyfat. Fat is broken down by the body and then stored in existing fat cells. However, Carbs store as bodyfat much easier than fatty acids do.
    Fat is the most efficient fuel for the body, hands down. It is the body's preference. Fat does NOT metabolize poorly.

    The whole low fat fad was a big deal in the 70's, but was quickly realized as flawed. The media and alot of dietitians still flout it out, but it is wrong. There are necessary fats, there are no necessary carbs.
    Eating alot of carbs are great for endurance runners and people that need quick energy. Eating alot of carbs are bad for your health and can lead to Diabetes II if not moderated.

    Of course those low fat foods that are oh so popular are full of sugar to make up for lack of taste. A bit of a snake bite there. Those "Dietitians" that tout out the old "low fat" diet, also say to eat three round meals instead of the much more efficiant 6-8 small meals a day. Makes you wonder if they even took any biology or physiology classes.
     
  15. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Welcome epimetheus

    Interesting name. Are you into the planets or greek civilisation I wonder?

    Pity your profile doesn't say much but you seem to have brought a wealth of information to the forum. I hope you enjoy the forums and look forward to hearing more from you.
     
  16. epimetheus

    epimetheus New Member

    Thank you for your welcome. :)

    I do like astronomy and greek mythology. (any mythology really)

    I hope to learn as much as I can offer. Or more so.
     
  17. rossboxing

    rossboxing New Member

    Carbs vs. Protein

    High protein diets cause the formation of the toxic ammonia called urea. This ammonia-based substance places a great deal of strain on your kidneys and liver. In addition, when insufficient levels of carbohydrates are consumed, the body is forced to utilize protein for energy. When protein is required for energy, it
    is no longer available to build and replenish the muscle. This creates a negative nitrogen balance in the body causing muscular atrophy to occur. Atrophy refers to a decrease in both the size and strength of the muscle.

    Low carbohydrate diets are characterized by initial weight loss, primarily due to excessive water loss. A decreased carbohydrate intake causes liver and muscle glycogen depletion, which causes a large loss of water, since about three parts of water are stored with one part of glycogen. Also, restricting carbohydrate intake
    reduces the kidney's ability to concentrate urine, leading to an increased excretion of sodium. Dieters cherish this rapid initial weight loss assuming it represents fat loss. Actually, their body fat stores are virtually untouched. As the body adjusts for the water deficit, the weight loss slows or ceases. Complications associated with low carbohydrate, high protein diets include ketosis, dehydration, electrolyte loss, calcium depletion, weakness, nausea, and kidney problems. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies are also common with crash diet regimens.

    It's important to remember that as fighters we train anaerobically. Anaerobic training is very intense and stressful to the body. In order to maintain optimum levels of energy, you will require AT LEAST 60% of your calories in the form of carbohydrates. You need to consume the right kind of carbs however. Stick to foods that are low on the glycemic index.

    Carbohydrates control the levels of sugar in your blood. As athletes we need to keep a steady level of blood sugar. By doing so, we ensure a steady level of ENERGY (required to train). When our blood sugar levels drastically drop, we experience the feeling of fatigue and exhaustion. Complex carbohydrates allow your blood sugar levels to remain constant, which equates to continuous energy for training.

    Some great examples of complex carbs that are low on the glycemic index are...Sweet Potatoes, Yams, Apples, Oranges, Whole Wheat Bread, Whole Wheat Pasta, and Brown Rice.

    Try to eat 5-6 meal per day rather than eating 3 "square" meals. By eating more frequent, smaller meals you maintain a steady source of energy while keeping your metabolism working all day.

    Peace,
    Ross
     
  18. epimetheus

    epimetheus New Member

    Low carb high protien can be a problem I agree.

    The human body is an adaptive biological machine though. Adaptation is what building muscle and storing/losing fat is all about.

    A person that switches the majority of his food sources from carbs to fats will adapt to his new food intake. The body will switch from burning alot of carbs to the much more efficent fat sources.

    Most sources do say about 60-65% of your intake be Carbs, and I certainly agree on your points about low GI foods. I personally survive just fine on about 30-40% Carbs with higher fat intakes.(200-250g of carbs) I keep my protien around 80-100g. My job is very physical, I lift 5 times a week, Run several miles 6 times a week and have even started Tai-Chi Chu'an. I have no energy problems at all, and my blood pressure and cholesterol levels have gone down. I also watch my Carbs because Diabetes runs on my Mother's side of the family.
    Before there was farming and lots of vegetables were available to man, they lived off of fish and games with fruits when they could get them. Man does not NEED many carbs at all. Fruit and vegetables are really all you need. Personally I would stick to vegetables and stay away from the sugary, low fiber fruit.

    I know there are only a few studies on this subject, and both sides tend to do whatever it takes to show they are right. What to agree on? What I do know is that trying to eat too much protien is not really good for you, and trying to eat nothing but fat and protien gets old.
    Oxygen slowly kills you, just as food does, it is all a matter of moderation. Too much kills, too little is dangerous or uncomfortable. A nice balance is best.
     
  19. rossboxing

    rossboxing New Member

    Nutrition...

    I understand that the body adapts but it is the responsibility of the athlete to promote this adaptation as efficiently as possible. Science does not lie. Protein is designed to promote recovery and growth of muscle tissue. This process allows one to grow stronger. We do not maximize our performance when we force protein to act as an energy source.

    Carbhydrates are a more efficient source of fuel. We must fuel the body in the most effective manner possible. A scientific nutritional plan can mean the difference for elite athletes.

    I train and work with several professional fighters. These athletes would not be able to sustain the continuous anaerobic threshold training without a properly designed nutritional plan. Fighters that are looking to compete at a world-class level must follow a sports performance diet if they wish to remain atop their division. The rigors associated with 2 or 3 training sessions per day during training camp require at minimum 60-70% carbhoydrates. Failure to do so will negate from performance. It is also important to note that fat is NOT an effective source of energy for anaerobic training.

    Many confuse long distance runs with training for boxing or other martial arts. Distance runs are conducted at an aerobic pace. As fighters we must train at an anaerobic pace. Examples of anaerobic conditioning include sprint training and interval running. This form of conditioning requires a higher level of carbohydrates than simple aerobic training.

    Boxing Training Advice
    http://www.rossboxing.com
     
  20. epimetheus

    epimetheus New Member

    How many people train 2-3 times a day at 2-3 hour sessions? Elite athletes at traning camp? Sure, giving these guys alot of Carbs would seem pretty important.
    I am very active, what with my fast paced, mid weighted load lifting job. (I pick up stacks of 10-20lb cardboard boxes and stack them at about 30 bundles in 5 minutes for 8 hours) I also burn about 400+ calories running every day, and lifting take some energy(30-45 mins 4-5 times a week). How does that activity level compare to a person that lifts 3 times a week, participates in classes and sparring sessions 3-4 times a week, but has a office job in which activity is minimal? About the same? Less? More?

    Should these people be eating Carbohydrates which is easily converted into fat? Should THEY follow the same high carb regimine of 60-70% that ELITE athletes follow? So they can shift from more weight on their right buttock to their left buttock?
    Many trainers will suggest eating a higher intake of Carbs on training days. An after workout Carb loading meal to replentish the muscle's glycogen. A pre-workout Carb meal, like Oats.

    Bodybuilding is also an Anerobic exercise. The majority of bodybuilding message boards and web pages, personal trainers and kinseologists recommend eating low carbs and higher fat, which is better to promote muscle growth. Most recommend 40-50%, except on a cutting cylce in which they suggest a much lower percentage. (and some do promote the ketosis diets)

    I will concede that in some instances a high carb diet is necessary. Certainly not year round. And definately not for everybody. It depends upon that persons goals. Lose weight? Bulk up with muscle? Train for a professional boxing tournament? Train for Martial arts (average participant, or elite competitor?). There is no one simple diet everybody should follow. Depends on bodytype, goals, and type of training said person is doing.

    For a person that is more interested in general health, longevity of life, and prevention of diabetes, foods that produce as little insulin as possible are important. Loads of carbs, even eaten 6-7 times a day will, over time, increase insulin resistance and cause the greater prolification of cells. (I.e age faster, after all, a cell can only replicate so many times before it dies or becomes cancerous) And in many instances, Diabetes will occur when the pancreas can no longer produce the necessary amount of insulin, because as an elite athlete you have been pumping sugar directly into your veins. (a bit of a hyperbole, but closer to the mark than one would think)

    My goal is wellness of body and mind. Becomming an elite athlete at the expense of endangering my longevity or increasing my chances of diabetes is not worth it to me. To some it may be worth the risks. Many people don't have as high of a chance at diabetes as others.

    An interesting article on Insulin and it's effects.
     

Share This Page