Nunchaku kata

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by chrispy, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. chrispy

    chrispy The Hunter

    So I'm here bored at my second job, started looking for sai kata-eventually got on wikipedia, ended up looking at ninja turtles and then Mikey and then a page with katas and saw the nunchaku kata here...

    http://proxy.ee.kent.ac.uk/~cpb2//Dentokan/Kobudo/

    the bottom one obviously.

    Now I have never used nunchaku before other than crappy home made ones that would break almost instantly when I was a kid imitating michelangelo.

    But now that I have preformed various kata and used weapons (still no nunchaku) it seems to me that compared to the usual effective and direct-to-the-pointness of most kata, this seems to have a LOT of waving the nunchaku around pointlessly, especially near the end. Maybe someone who uses them can tell me if there is actually a point to that.

    And would it not make much more sence to use 1 nunchaku as opposed to a pair, I would think it would be much better to use for blocking and twisting/gripping incoming weapons/arms/legs etc... with only 1 nunchaku?

    Full me in folks :)
     
  2. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    Chris, forgive any over tones of sarcasm however..

    Did you even bother to read this : post on the subject of Nunchaku

    .. And presumably you haven't searched this forum for the 167 results relating to this weapon, it's use, origin etc etc etc. :rolleyes:

    If you're so board, perhaps you have the time to do the donkey work yourself :)

    Regards
     
  3. chrispy

    chrispy The Hunter

    Nope, didn't even see it, my bad.

    You are correct I did not search, no exact reason in particular - a fresh answer is usually a better one though, and I'm not asking questions like "where do nunchucks come from?" "what are they made of" "what is their history" (questions that are perfectly answered by your first linked post)- I was asking a couple of questions directly related to the video link I posted.

    I'm not asking someone to search the forum for me. I was asking if a nunchaku user had any insight to A) the kata I posted and B) a fairly simple question I would think about if a user of nunchaku found it more practical to use 1 set compared to 2.

    Again it's not like I was asking basic and stupid questions, I was asking specifically about the kata video i posted and for an opinion on the use or 1 or 2 nunchaku.
     
  4. TKDninja1

    TKDninja1 Banned Banned

    go to a ATA TKD dojang.

    This is the greatest weapon in my arnseal.
     
  5. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    Eh ? :confused: Nunchaku is of Okinawan origin.. why would we see it in a Korean Dojang ?
     
  6. TKDninja1

    TKDninja1 Banned Banned

    Nunchaku is a Korean Police weapon. It went from there into Ninjajitsu (as Ninja's origin is in Korea). When the Japanese invaded Okinawa some ninja where killed on droped the weapon. Thus it when into Okinawan Martial Arts.

    But its a Korean weapon.
     
  7. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    I suppose your going to tell me that the origins of iai stem from kumdo.
     
  8. TKDninja1

    TKDninja1 Banned Banned

    Iai?
     
  9. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    Let me just clarify for my own purposes.

    You are saying, the nunchaku originated in Korea, not the Ryukyu Islands.

    You are saying that Ninjutsu originated in Korea and not Japan

    And you are saying that as a result of Korean Ninja infiltrating the Ryukyu Islands, the occupants (peasants) adopted the nunchaku.

    :rolleyes:

    History
    The nunchaku was originally a short flail used to thresh rice (separate the grain from the husk). Its development as a weapon supposedly grew out of the moratorium on edged weaponry under the Satsuma shoguns due to their restrictive policy of weapons control after invading Okinawa in the 17th century. (Some maintain that the weapon was most likely conceived and used exclusively for that end, as the configuration of actual flails and bits are unwieldy for weapons use, not to mention the fact that peasant farmers were unlikely to train for 'improvised' combat against professional warriors.) The modern nunchaku has been modified for its use as a weapon and would make a relatively ineffective rice flail.

    The nunchaku as a weapon has surged in popularity since Bruce Lee used it in his movies in the 1970s. It is generally considered by martial artists to be a limited weapon: complex and difficult to wield, it lacks either the range of the bo (quarterstaff) or the edged advantage of a sword or sai, and is prone to inflicting self-injury on the user. Nevertheless, its impressive motion in use and perceived lethality contributed to its increasing popularity, peaking in the 1980s, perhaps due to its (unfounded) association with ninjas during the 1980s ninja craze.

    Formal nunchaku styles
    The most common martial arts to use nunchaku are the Japanese and Okinawan martial arts such as some forms of karate/kobudo, but some Eskrima systems also teach practitioners to use nunchaku. Songahm Taekwondo, a Korean style patterned after karate, also teaches how to use one and two Nunchakus, though in Korean, they are known as Sahng Jeol Bahngs, or sometimes Sahng Jeol Bongs. The styles of these three arts are rather different; the traditional Okinawan arts would have used the sticks primarily to grip and lock, while the Filipino arts would have used the sticks primarily for striking, while Songahm Taekwondo teaches a combination of both.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2006
  10. TKDninja1

    TKDninja1 Banned Banned

    Correct.

    Correct.

    The Ninja were japanese by this time. That was the Okwinian first exposure to Nunchakus.
     
  11. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    The Historical Ninja

    By Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi

    ISBN0-86568-027-2

    There are many theories as to the beginnings of what we know as the art of ninjutsu today. Each Japanese historian has his or her own set of facts and beliefs, and it is difficult pinpointing a specific place, person, time, or set of circumstances that would be acceptable to all as the birth of the art. In all truthfulness, ninjutsu did not come into being as a specific well-defined art in the first place, and many centuries passed before ninjutsu was established as an independent system of knowledge in its own right. The people who were later referred to as ninja did not originally use that label for themselves. They considered themselves to be merely practitioners of political, religious, and military strategies that were cultural opposites of the conventional outlooks of the times. Ninjutsu developed as a highly illegal counter culture to the ruling samurai elite, and for this reason alone, the origins of the art were shrouded by centuries of mystery, concealment, and deliberate confusion of history.


    In the legends of the founding of Japan’s Imperial Family, passed on by word of mouth through the generations before recorded history, two ninja-like characters are credited with assisting the first emperor, Jimmu, in attaining a decisive victory. Jimmu was in combat against the troops of Iso Castle, and the battle was going against him. One night in a dream, the future emperor had a vision in which he was told to take the clay from Mt. Amakaga and mold it into a sacred vessel. Mt. Amakaga was a holy mountain that lay in the middle of the territory held by the Iso forces. Obtaining the raw clay became the symbol of Jimmu’s intention and resolve towards succeeding in the conquest of Iso Castle. Shinetsuhiko and Otokashi served their lord Jimmu by disguising themselves as an old peasant and his wife, and the two successfully slipped into the enemy territory, packed the clay, and returned safely. Jimmu then molded and fired a platter and bowl set from clay, offered them to the gods of fortune and went on to attain the victory he so strongly believed to be his destiny. The skills of ninjutsu were said to have been passed thereafter to Tennin Nichimei, Okume Mei, and Otomo Uji for further development and expansion.

    Among the ancient ninjutsu documents that I inherited from my teacher are several scrolls that tell of Chinese ex-patriots who fled their native land to seek sanctuary in the islands of Japan. Chinese warriors, scholars, and monks alike made the journey to find new lives in the wilderness of Ise and Kii south of the capitals in Nara and then Kyoto. Taoist sages like Gamon, Garyu, Kain, and Unryu, and generals from T’ang China such as Cho Gyokko, Ikai, and Cho Busho brought with them the knowledge that had accumulated over the centuries in their native land. Military strategies, religious philosophies, folklore, cultural concepts, medical practices, and a generally wide scope of perspective that blended the wisdom of China with that of India, Tibet, Eastern Europe, and south-east Asia were their gifts to their newly-found followers in Japan. Remote and far flung from the Emperor’s court in the capital, the cultural ancestors of the ninja lived their lives as naturalists and mystics, while the main-stream of society became increasingly structured, ranked, stylised, and eventually tightly controlled.

    As the passage of time continued to unfold the fabric of Japan’s history, the ninja and their ways of accomplishment, known as Ninjutsu, were always present behind the scenes of all the eras to ensure the survival and independence of their families and lands. In the regions of Iga and Koga, Ninjutsu became a special skill, refined and perfected by over seventy families, each with their own unique methods, motivations, and ideals.

    Japanese history books, however, are curiously limited in their coverage and acknowledgment of the shadowy figures known as ninja. In textbooks even as recent as one generation ago, Hanzo Hattori, the head of one of the most influential ninja families in Iga and Shogun Ieyasu Tokugawa’s director of ninja, was referred to as "a bushi (samurai) from the remote province of Iga". This hesitancy to openly acknowledge the ninja’s role in the forging of modern Japan stems perhaps from the glorification of the samurai concept and ethic that became very popular after the Meiji Restoration (1868). The Meiji Restoration abolished the samurai class and gave all citizens the right to affect social trappings that had once been reserved for samurai only.
    1

    With this clouding of significant historical events and people, it is difficult for today’s Japanese people to understand the true purpose and ideals of the ninja. Exaggerated legends left over from the Tokugawa era, in which the Shogun’s ninja secret police were given supernatural powers such as the ability to disappear, walk across water, and read minds , confuse the story even more. As the world became more and more interested in the culture and then the martial arts of Japan, the distorted stories of the ninja found new audiences in the Western world over the past three decades.


    It is easy to at least discuss being in control of one’s body, and it has become quite fashionable in the West to discuss personal responsibility in the control of one’s mind and emotions, but being in control of one’s perception of right and wrong, or what is appropriate, is a more difficult matter. To be in control of one’s perception of appropriateness is to be able to rely on one’s "sixth sense" and to have a working knowledge of one’s sub-conscious level of thinking. This broader perception of reality being based on one’s own unique viewpoint is what set the ninja apart from the conventional military tacticians during the warring states and feudal eras of Japan.

    Hmmm... No mention of Korea or Korean influance there, written by one of the world's formost experts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2006
  12. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    Oh.. Iai - Iaijutsu, Iaido, Kendo, Kenjutsu as in the way of the sword.

    [​IMG]

    Amazing, Korean people, a Dojang (which means Dojo in Korean), students weaing kendo-gi, hakama holding a bamboo sword.. no wait that's called a shinai... Kumdo of course, it all makes sense now.

    [​IMG]

    My cousin Jeff (a Rokudan Hanshi last on the right - front row) has obviously been studying the wrong art then?​

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2006
  13. Anth

    Anth Daft. Supporter

    Have you had any formal training in "ninjajitsu" to be able to say that its Korean and back yourself up, or shall I send your post to the ninjutsu forum so that they can tell you more about its origins and flame you to hell and back?
     
  14. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    Korean Ninjajitsu according to a 15 year old master of TKD

    [​IMG]

    and of course Dr. Hatsumi

    [​IMG]

    Hmmm, difficult one this... which one to choose. :confused:

    You are a...

    [ ] Clueless Newbie
    [ ] Loser
    [ ] Previously Banned Member
    [ ] Bruce Lee Wannabee
    [ ] Troll
    [ ] Spammer
    [*] 15 year old
    [ ] Flamer
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    [ ] All of the above

    You are reading this beacuse...

    [ ] You posted a Style Vs Thread
    [ ] You posted a personal attack against a mod
    [ ] You have a Mother who posted on your behalf
    [*] You failed to engage your brain before tapping the keyboard
    [ ] You hit the submit button when you should have flushed the toilet
    [ ] You should have used the Search Feature
    [ ] You posted the Real Ultimate Power site again
    [ ] You posted a thread in Ninjitsu asking about smoke bombs/night training
    [ ] You posted a MMA Spoiler in Traditional Healing
    [ ] You posted a thread stating you can run up walls
    [ ] You posted a ( WarCraft 3 / WoW ) vs Diablo 2 thread
    [ ] You posted an OMG The Sky is Falling thread
    [ ] You ressurected a long dead, stupid thread
    [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
    [ ] You flamed someone and got burnt
    [ ] You posted a thread on Dux Ninjitsu
    [ ] You haven't read the stickies
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    [ ] You typed in text/leet speak
    [*] You posted duff information
    [ ] You posted a video/site we've all seen a thousand times before
    [ ] All of the above

    In Punishment, You Must...

    [ ] Take down all your Bruce Lee posters and wall hanging nunchuks
    [ ] Stop posting and go to class 3 times a week
    [ ] Stop going to Cub Scouts and start wearing long trousers
    [ ] Actually post something relevant
    [ ] Read the Damn FAQ
    [ ] Go to your room with no supper
    [*] Apologize to everybody on this forum
    [ ] Stand in the corner and do kata till you die of boredom
    [ ] All of the above

    In Closing, I'd Like to Say...

    [ ] Learn to type using ALL the correct letters
    [ ] Welcome to last week
    [*] Press Alt and F4
    [ ] Can I have your stuff?
    [ ] Don't let the door hit you in the ass.
    [ ] All your base are belong to us. Go every Zig.
    [ ] All of the above
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2006
  15. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    I haven't seen the video (It's 33Meg long - for crying out loud :eek: ) but I'll have a stab at your two comments.

    Any Chule Bong Hyung (ooops - slipped into questionably spelt Korean) that involves 'pointless waving around' would need to be seen in the context of what comes before or after. We have a number of figure-8 type moves that could keep someone at bay, or set them up for a strike from an unexpected angle. You also have to remember that unlike the staff / tonfa / knife / stick, this weapon has an independant movement of it's own, which must be dealt with by the hand movements to prevent you clobbering yourself. :D

    For flashy demonstration and performance purposes, 2 sets may be better than 1 - but since we learn this weapon as a blocking and trapping tool as well as a striking tool, we learn to use one pair. ;)

    We do learn this as one of our weapons in our Tang Soo Do Dojang, and it comes under the heading of a 'traditional weapon'. I know nothing about history - so I'm passing no comment as to who thought it up and how it was passed from country to country. :)

    Nice to see Dave's meter has been upgraded - hopefully Anth and I don't get together to break this one :D :D :Angel:
     
  16. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    Hmmm, first of all, if nunchaku is a korean weapon originally then why don't you use the Korean term for it? Jul Bong are practiced in some korean arts. Contrary to what your mastership may think, it is not a native weapon to TKD. TKD is an empty handed style. Any weapons you've learned are not part of the base curriculum. Anyway, though those of us who learn Jul Bong practice with what is basically Okinawan nunchaku, that's not how the korean version came about. Korean Jul bong looked very different than nunchaku originally. They had a longer chain with much longer sticks. Seriously, maybe you should get out of your ATA dojang sometime, and learn about other arts. I have nothing against TKD at all, as I used to train in it. However, you should really think twice before you try to lecture people who practice in weapons styles regularly.
     
  17. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    In response to the original post. Pretty much all the moves he uses are basic nunchaku movements. It seemed to just repeat the same strikes and bounces over and over again. It's about as basic a nunchaku form as you could expect to see. As far as effective moves, those are really tough to show in a form. Nunchaku are very hard to make effective anyway, as once it makes hard contact with a target you have to be really good to be able to keep it under control.
     
  18. Capt Ann

    Capt Ann Valued Member

    Yes. Thousands of years ago. By Korean monks. In the mountains. (or not ;) )
     
  19. chrispy

    chrispy The Hunter

    Finally! thank you!

    And thank you too as well

    non sarcastic and informative replies on topic :)

    yeah I guess it would be easier to judge if it was pointless or not if there was someone reacting to what he is doing or whatever.

    The bit about using one pair by JangBong makes a lot of sence to me that it'd be a lots easir to accomplish blocks and trap and generally control the weapon if you only have to worry about one of them.

    Thanks Guys
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2006
  20. Dave Humm

    Dave Humm Serving Queen and Country

    And for the record, I do apologise for the sarcasm; sometimes I can't help myself (lol)
     

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