Not what we needed right now.

Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later but so early in the WMA revival and from such a highly respected member of the community. I have to admit it's a bit of a blow. Well done to Roger to owning up and facing the music. I know it is his EMA creditials that were fake but it undermines everything the WMA has been trying to achieve. I know the pressure in the modern martial arts community to display pieces of paper and it was why I took the decision early to refuse all rank offered and prove myself individually with everyone I train with. I have to admit there are times when I think I'll got train somewhere for a few years and gain a dan grade or two. Today is one of those days I am glad I just train with desire to learn practical martial skills. It also brings home my desire to not have a formal ranking system introduced into WMA. So that instructors have to prove their teaching and martial ability to every student that walks through the door.
Good Luck Roger and I wish you well and I hope those offended in the EMA community don't think less of the WMA community because of this incident.

The Bear.

 

Interesting and unfortunate.
He was big enough to come back and own up to it (though I'm curious if that was only because of questioning by members of the Daito ryu community and the WMA community)... so that has to count for something.

It's beyond me why anyone would claim menkyo kaiden in Daito-ryu aikijujutsu.
By comparison to other arts the numbers Daito-ryu aikjujutsu practititoners are quite small. On top of that it's rather easy to verify whether one actually has a menkyo kaiden by writing a letter to the Daito-ryu aikjujutus honbu dojo in Japan and asking them to clarify the status and ranking of the individual.

This very situation was just recently in discussion on Ebudo.com.
Hopefully this wont have too much of a negative effect if any on the WMA scene.

 

Hi Bear...

Your no doubt aware that you won't get instructor's insurance unless you hold some sort of instructor/coaching certificate - council halls wont entertain you and if you manage to get a hall without cover you run the risk of being sued if someone gets hurt.

So WMA needs to organise some sort of recognised ranking that MA insurance groups will accept - otherwise they will have to rely on sport fencing certification or an Eastern MA qualification

As to Roger claiming a qualification he didn't earn - I know a few Eastern MA instructors who have done the same thing - One instructor I trained with went around a Japanese MA seminar telling everyone he was the head instructor in the country for a particular Japanese style - he was taken aback a bit when it turned out that the real head coach was there that day - I still cringe thinking about it!!!!!!!

Louie

 

So WMA needs to organise some sort of recognised ranking that MA insurance groups will accept

The Brit Federation of Historic Swordsmanship is trying to get this together ie supplying their own insurance, but as with all Brit Fed things ... its going to take some time to organize. At SWASH, I will be going after anyone who stands still long enough for me to get a rant going on this subject. There are NO plans to give anything other than 'Certified Instructor' rating and thats nearly impossible to achieve - there are 3 in scotland I think to cover 4 groups and 2 are in the DDS.

Louie is correct about councils BUT even worse is the fact that many halls simply wont touch MA at all, (Church of Scotland for example), to ensure that they have zero chance of being sued in case of injury.

Next year we (Glasgow Company of Duellists) will have to up our insurance to include personal injury cover and thats money I'd rather spend on kit. Likely to lead to the following scenario.....
Congratulations young padawan, you are now cleared to freeplay ... now give me £5!

 

I take it you won't need certified instructor status to get insurance. All you'll need is to be vetted by the group and allowed to join the Fed to get insurance through them.
I'm happy to pay insurance, I have one family to look after, having to be honour bound to look after another through training accident could be alittle demanding.


The Bear.

 

If I understand the plan correctly ... You would pay an increased membership fee that would cover membership and accident & liability insurance. Having been vetted by the BFHS already, we would be eligible to cover. Assuming they can get it organized.

Having seen you and paul and Louie mix it up in simple opposed drills ... you three REQUIRE personal accident cover before I let you near freeplay ... and then I will have a firehose on standby to ensure you obey the fightmasters instructions.

 

So no need for a ranking system and people can go for the highly demanding position of certified instructor only if they desire. Which sounds exactly how it should be to me.

Yeah, we are champing at the bit now. Too much red meat I reckon.

The Bear.

 

Hey, I want you guys at freeplay ... that way I get to have some duelling fun on a sunday ... and we need to start preparing for you know who!

 

Oh yes, Once I get my own sword ..... finally ..... Training will be getting well ramped up for that very purpose.

The Bear.

 

Again the problem Hamster might have is (pick a senario :woo: ) - he falls out with/has to leave the BHFS for whatever reason - if he has no Instructor/Coach qualification piece of paper he cannot prove that he is qualified in any art and will be up the creek if he wants to teach!!

No piece of paper would also mean that it would be impossible to prove that you have/have not trained under a 'recognised' system... leading to the sort of situation that started this thread!!!!

I have it, I have a sword - ready & waiting

Louie

 

No not really they would have a proven track record to take to a new insurer.

Ha ha ha ha DOWN BOY, DOWN!!!!

The Bear.

 

Okay Bear I'll take the bait.......
so how do we prove a "track record" other than that given by an official body like the BFHS - get a few students to sign a pettition, send the insurer photos of you doing the splits?

Louie

 

Hand over your club accounts, AGM minutes, accident book and previous insurance certificates. The insurance people I have dealt with were more than willing to take my money as long as I was up front with them.

The Bear.

 

we have accounts?

 

Yeah there's just nothing in them apart from a couple of moths that have died of starvation.

The Bear.

 

Interesting....

We better not fall out with the BFHS for at least a year or so then...
Hamster have you started those accounts-minutes for 2007 & did you put your accident in the book?

The experience i've had is that associations offering insurance won't touch you without a martial art certificate - Be interested to hear if anyone else has experience along these lines. The AMA to which we & the BFHS are affiliated too, state that "All AMA coaches must have a recognised coaching qualification"

Louie

 

Which one? ha ha ha ha ha. the paul sausage maker or the louie kebab.

You can go straight to the insurance companies. You don't actually need to go through an association at all. You'll pay more but it's doable.

The Bear.

 

have a spreadsheet for 2007 up to date although our year end is may 30th.

Have a 12 page list of all the slights, injuries, cheap shots and insults tossed my way this year. Oh for some students like Chosonwhinger has.

DDS have got Greg insured instructor status ... they just told AMA he was of instructor status and they accepted it. Maybe I could get DDS to vouch for me.

 

Yeah and that means we can get student insurance through them too.
Get the BFHS to vouch for you.

The Bear.

 

Interresting to read.
In Norway there is no need to pose as master of a certain level in order to organize a WMA-"dojo", as most WMA'ers just register as "theatrical groups", or simply trust eachoter not to sue eachother if either get hurt, or simply make an insurance on their own.

So far, I hardly think that the established Martial arts community are aware of anything called WMA