I've known a lot of people to have said "I'm not religious, but I am spiritual." (to which Daniel Tosh replies "Well I'm not honest, but you're interesting.) This seems to be a common reaction to any mention of "spiritual" or spirituality as opposed to religion (which generally has the reaction (in more or less kinder words) of "you're a bit mental then!) I think this is in part due to ignorance and the massive range of what "being spiritual" might include. I believe in some things that my common sense tells me is ridiculous, but belief has nothing to do with intelligence, and I can't explain why I still believe it. Perhaps it is only a reaction to doubts and fears as many an atheist has posited to those religious folk who insist on trying to convert people. That said, I've heard what people have seen - a friend said he saw his mother at the foot of his bed, when he knew she was 90 miles away with his father, and a few minutes later he'd got the phone call to tell him she'd died - and think "who the hell am I to tell these people they're wrong?" My friend knew what his mother looked like, this isn't the same thing as seeing Jesus on a slice of toast. For me, I'm a believer that we live multiple lives to learn what we need to to be complete, and between lives we choose what we want to learn this time round. This could be me trying to convince myself my being abused happened for a reason, but somehow the idea just seems natural to me. (I share this trusting you all not to make fun of me, I know how crazy it sounds.) I dunno why I started the thread, I guess I just wanted to ramble because I find it frustrating that people dismiss spirituality so much easier than religion, presumably because it's so vague. I was wondering though, are there any who consider themselves "religious but not spiritual" and what does that include for you? I've explored many religions to varying degrees, but not looked at things like Wicca and Druidism, which I think are what most people imagine when they read "spiritual." Perhaps I should have before I started typing but meh, done now Interested to see what peoples' thoughts are.
As you've got quite an interesting potential thread here, I'm not going to go on my usual anti-religion attack, but I do think it's only fair to note that there are many people who dismiss spirituality in exactly the same way they do religion. Often you'll find the ones who dismiss spirituality more easily are religious themselves, and somehow feel that the organisation, numbers and authority structure make their beliefs somehow more 'valid'.
I meant to include in my initial post, what do you (collective "you" there) consider fits under the "spiritual" umbrella? I'd like to know what people think of when they think of spirituality. Cheers for the reply bunny, I don't blame people for dismissing spirituality the same as religion, it is ultimately still believing in things that can't be seen. The biggest difference to me is the lack of worship, I think worship in any context is unhealthy, especially when it comes to intangibles, it tends to make people think very differently about things. I prefer a healthy respect to outright worship.
I find it difficult to really believe in anything that I don't see evidence for. Not trying to be snarky, just that there's a little voice in my head that say "Hey fool, you don't know." If I'm honest, I'd like to believe, but I find more skeptical explanations to be more parsimonious. And horrifying!
Thanks, and in terms of what 'spirituality' includes for me, it's quite a range: - mediums - ghosts - many forms of paganism - being religious - non-deity-specific prayer - anything else... Actually it's kind of difficult for me to list. I'd say that, basically, spirituality for me includes any belief in sentient intangibles without evidence, so in many ways I lump religion in with spiritualism. That doesn't really work either, as it would include aliens, but it's the closest I can manage.
To my understanding/opinion, "religion" is any set of beliefs that includes one or more deities, or that includes worship. I don't remember if taoists actively worship the tao (the energy, yknow) or just consider it, so not sure whether that would be a philosophy of life or religion. Though the tao te ching doesn't mention worshipping anything, so I'll go with the former on that one. It's interesting that you put spiritual and religious together, to me the two are quite distinctly separate lol. Mediums (plural media?) and ghosts are safely in spirituality I think, paganism would be religion for me, as they worship the Goddess don't they? I need to read up on more stuff lol. Most of what I know about religion philosoraptor is because I've always WANTED to believe, when I feel the atmosphere in church or hear of the comfort it brings to people, it makes me dislike my lack of belief, but belief to me is something you either have or don't, you can't intellectualise it or set out to believe in it. Even when I was seeing Mormons regularly and I wrote a song praising God, it was totally insincere, I just wanted to write something and Mormonism was on my mind at the time. (I stopped seeing mormons when one of them used that song as a weapon against me, he was arguing I'd felt the spirit and believed but was refusing to admit it, as if I wouldn't know better than he would how I feel Mormons pushed me off the fence on the "God doesn't exist" side lol) That said, atheism does bring its own comforts. I recently read Penn Jilette's book "God, No!" in which he describes his mother's unpleasant death, and he said it was hard enough not seeing any sense or reason to it, but if he believed God had a plan for us all and that her decline was part of his plan, that would have been even harder to bear. I agree with that. THAT said, it was comforting when my dad died to imagine the reason his eyes shot open before they closed for the last time is because his parents were nearby and he was looking at them before he followed them. Who the hell knows
A religion is more than just a set of beliefs its a belief system that usually comes from specific cultural and sociopolitical origins. There are rules and underlying principles. Spirituality is just believing there is an ultimate truth to everything. A perceived concept of what's behind the veil. My opinion anyway. To be honest I don't know which one I am because my feelings about god or any other supernatural subjects change so much there is no way I could keep track.
I think the reason so many people mock the "not religious but spiritual" thing is that it is usually misused. Nine times out of ten, someone who describes himself this way is either (a) making up his own religion as he goes along, or (b) fed up with the restrictions of religion but still wants the assurances that come with believing in God.
I agree with what OwlMAtt said. I tend to find that people who talk about 'spirituality' are usually very vague about what they actually believe IN. They clearly want to believe in something 'other worldly', but for one reason or another they won't commit to being religious. I think that the reason that it provoke a reaction of irritation is because it often comes across as rather 'wishy-washy'. By contrast, people who commit to a specific belief seem a lot more charismatic - even if we think that the beliefs they hold are a load of rubbbish.
When you see a - spider in your house, instead of killing it, you take it outside and release it. - bug is crossing street, you give it a lift so it won't be killed by the traffic. - bird falls into water, you pick it up so it won't be drawn. - ... If you love all living creature and don't believe in killing, you may belong to the "spiritual" world more than some religious people do. To me, "spiritual" is to love the planet of earth. If you name your children "flower", "wind", "sunset", ... you are very "spiritual". No religion will be needed here.
I roll my eyes when people say "I'm not religious but I am spiritual" because in almost all cases it's an attempt to sound interesting and profound and like they've really thought about the bigger philosophical questions. The opposite is usually closer to the truth. It's a way of not thinking if anything. It's a way of postponing getting to grips with stuff for what they really are.
...that isn't really spiritual though, surely? That's just being a hippy. Spiritual does rather imply some sort of belief in spirits, of some kind?
I'd say it's spiritual depending on why you do it. For years I've felt massive guilt when I kill something (usually when spiders are of a certain size because my arachnophobia can't handle it), because to me life is, and apologies for sounding so namby pamby about it, precious It was originally based on karma, though I don't believe in that anymore, I still feel awful. I dunno if that makes me a hippie or spiritual or just a decent person, or just someone who respects life on this planet. I think if you call your kid flower or wind or whatever, you're probably a celebrity more than anything else xD Ah, theonion... intended as satire (or is it parody? Never was clear on the difference to be honest) but is truer than it thinks.
- No matter what we may have today, 100 years from now we will lose it. - When we see a beautiful girl, just image her skeleton under her flesh, it's still as ugly as everybody else. - No matter how long that we may live, we are just a dot on the line of time. - When we don't have physical pain, we are already in heaven. - No matter how serious matter that we think today, 1000 years from now it will be just someone's conversation subject on their dinner table. - When you and I are no longer on earth, the sun will still raise and set, the water will still flow in the river. - I love Toyota Tercel. Any car after that will be an upgrade. - ... If we can understand all these, we are "spiritual" without having to do with any "spirits". To me, "spiritual" is to be able to understand "life" and "death". To be able to accept "life", "old", "sickness", "sadness", and "death" with "inner peace". - Yesterday is already gone. - Tomorrow hasn't arrive yet. - Current is what we truly live.
I think in many cases when people say spiritual they essentially believe many of the same or similar things as religious folks, and with similar logical errors, but without deities attached. It is not the same as being philosophical.
The term spiritual has somewhat picked up a wishy washy new agey connotation to it which is a shame. In my life experience I found my own spiritual side/ tendencies through meditative practices and exploring Zen Budihism and Taoism. Since then I would say my feeling and thoughts tend to fluctuate. There are times when I feel very little spiritually - that things are too 'disconnected', other times I feel more 'spiritual'. I think there's no one size fits all blanket called spirituality. For me it's a sense of 'oneness'. Tao basically. My spiritual side(edit.I consider to be) is basically an agnostic Pantheism. IOW, I like pantheistic concepts, but I don't know.
To the dictionary, spiritual is 'of or relating to spirits or the immaterial'. While there could be uncertainty about what's included, and people may have their own views on whether a subject like, say, tarot is spiritual there is absolutely no sense in using the word spiritual to refer to non-spiritual matters. Also, why "spirits", "life", "death", "life", "old", "sickness", "sadness", "death" and "inner peace"? Finally, if something I think is a serious matter today is dinner table conversation a millenia from now, that'd make it a pretty serious matter.
That is a type of 'spiritual' belief that I regard as valid, rather than the usual cod-philosophy/pseudo-religious waffle that people often spout when they talk about 'spirituality'.
