No internal martial artists in ufc?

Hmmmm... Denied?

 

This is just a guess, but I'm guessing that was sarcasm.

Yes, all these 'meatheads' have no skill whatsoever. They just train 5-7 days a week spending hours sparring and rolling everyday and then pull of a win with no skill AT ALL. Just brute force. No, grappling isn't about control or leverage, it's about being a huge meathead who can pick up your opponent over your head and throw him out of the ring.

 

Lol a lot of things have been questioned in stupid threads but , if someone ever said that UFC fighters are not skilled fighters he should be banned. No talking no questioning no arguing, just bye bye.

That goes too far.

 

But really, im still curious on to WHY we never see this in the UFC.

HOw does one join and fight in these tournaments anyway?

 

Thought he was a ju jitsu man:
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterID=33

On a similar note, is there a place where they list the cards and results of past UFCs? I've been trying to find one for a bit.

There have been a few UFC fighters who haven't been overly skilled. Tank Abbott immediately springs to mind (I cannot express how much I was rooting for Taktaroff). However, by and large these are very skilled individuals.

Can you cite a source for this? It's the first time I've ever heard anything like that.

Finally, it was my understanding that the fighters in the first few UFCs were selected/invited by the promoters. Currently there is a qualifing system if memory serves.

- Matt

 

For me being skilled in something means:

To have a goal and achieve it through using the skill you posses. (provided that the goal is difficult to achieve)

So i think Tank was one of the most skilled fighters in the UFC even if he couldn't kick waist high.

 

From what ive experianced, this term is loosly used by uneducated people who have seen a highlight clip of the KO's that are lying around the internet. The people who have watched a video and made a snap judgement...

He who says UFC? (mma) fighters have no skill obviously has no clue about MMA.

You'll actually notice that some of the fighters are intelligent people; but then what do i know... im a 'meathead'...

 

hold on- you think tank isnt a good fighter? are you on the crack? he would kill most people. compared to the BEST FIGHTERS IN THE WORLD he may not be too hot, but compared to your or me he would be a nightmare.


oh and if its only based on strength, why does royce gracie win any fights? hes like 80kg and punches like a girl.

 

The funny thing is, is that he actually does punch much like a girl; maybe even worse than a girl Royce really needs to work on standup more

 

Alex, what you're describing is determination, not skill. There's no doubt of his determination. I think Tank is a powerful fighter. No question about that. But no, I haven't seen much to convince me he's a skilled fighter (at least by my view of it). And I think his record supports my view:
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=110

8 wins
10 losses

And of those wins most were from striking. The fact is he has good boxing fundiments, generates a lot of power, and can absorb a lot of punishment. However he doesn't have much of a grappling game (most of his losses are cases where he's out grappled) and he's also been out punched. Also note the fact that most of his losses have been at the hands of smaller (lighter) opponents.

And Ikken I didn't say he was a bad fighter. I said he is an unskilled fighter. They are not mutually exculsive terms. Quite frankly, because he's a pro he needs to be held to a higher standard. He would eat me for lunch. There's no question. But when compared against his peers (which are the only fair people to compare him against) he's towards the bottom of that barrel on skills.

- Matt

 

It seems to me, that UFC has a lot to do with 'spirit', guts. I imaging, from reading this thread, that is why less skilled fighters do well.

I'd heard about a jujitsu guy doing well just using jujitsu, just couldn't remember his name. I think it was mentioned in this thread.

I've heard about the whole internal/external - indiginous/imported style of martial arts.

I think that a common thought is to view internal martial arts that come from a more relaxed standpoint. relaxation is focused on first. I believe that high level practitioners of so-called external styles try to improve their relaxation, I have also heard of high level karateka telling his students to study tai chi to help their own practice (increase fluidity and control, better use of the waist). How about trying out kicks etc at a tai chi pace? (I think BK Frantzis is quoted as saying that this type of practice helped him get much better control of his kicks.)

IMHO, there is a high level of philosophy/spirituality tied in to the internal styles. This could be Taoist, Confucian, Russian Orthodox Christianity etc. A lot of what these things say would tend to lead people away from UFC, or a similar type of arena.
Why would an 'internal' martial artist want to go in to UFC?

One of the things I like about the IMA is this:
Hard-style fighters say: you should have seen me when I was 30/younger I could really kick ass
'Soft-style' pratitioner: You should see me when I'm 80!

I practice IMA, I have no desire to enter competitions as I'm more likely to use the ancient art of Glesga F'u Kyu, than anything from my IMA.

Glesga F'u Kyu: Stick the heid in, nut the bam an' kick his baws 'till he caws oot fer 'is maw!

 

If you trully believe that determination is enough for ufc then there is no point in arguing we just disagree. Determination has a lot to to do when your self is the opponent not when someone else is.

And about the stats , the guy is been around for 10 years. He had 3 looses in a row this year... come on.

 

No determination alone didn't get him there. Training and practice did. He's got a lot of flight time. And as I stated he's a powerful fighter able to absorb a lot of damage. Butterbean can absorb a lot of damage. But I don't think he's a skilled fighter. Tank Abbot, doesn't have the same level of fight skills that other competitors on the same level do. Why is that so hard to accept?

And over those 10 years in these recorded matches he's lost more than he's won. And from the footage that I've seen, he's been able to dominate people who are less strong and aggressive (if you look at his wins on Sherdog you can't say he was beating the best of the best).

Put him up against a skilled opponent and he just doesn't have what it takes. Research the people who've beaten him:

1. They're almost all smaller than he is (he usually has them by at least 20 lbs).
2. They're percision fighters. They have better skills, better conditioning, and fankly better strategy.

Thake for example Vitor Belfort! Tank had almost 50 lbs on him and Vitor TKO'd him. He went to Tank's playground and beat him on it. That's skill.

Tank's a brawler. And that can only get him so far. When he runs up against a moderately skilled opponent he loses. Against a really skilled opponent he's taken apart.

I've yet to see anyone (especially him) offer conclusive evidence that his skills are not sub par for a pro.

- Matt

ps. Man this thread has been hijacked. Mod/Admins, any chance of a split?

 

So.....how do you get into the UFC? Maybe then we would see an internal guy join.

 

There are smaller MMA shows all over the country. Build a record and a reputation, join a good fight team, get a good manager, and BAM.

 

LOL your sig made me go and see the clip 10 times

"its how a nigga eat" LOL ...

 

Not sure exactly, just talk to one of the promoters or find a fighter who can give you names and numbers of who to talk to about it. If they think you're good, they'll let you fight.

No sorry, not sure if there even are any. However, I've read some VERY convincing cases that support this and it makes sense to me. How can 'internal' and 'external' be different? 'Internal' styles have everything that external styles do (stances, techniques, etc). Some people use the terms 'hard' and 'soft' which IMO are even worse. How can they be 'hard' or 'soft'? Soft styles have attackers, and hard styles still have circular movements, blocks, deflections, and evading techniques. They aren't mutually exclusive, and those categories just don't work.

The fighters have rapidly evolved since the early UFC's when Tank fought. He hasn't won a fight since '98. I don't doubt he has some skill, but from what I've read about him he mostly relied on strength.

Modern MMA fighters are certainly in good condition, but any serious athlete is. Do you consider all those people in the olympics 'meatheads' just because they aren't couch potatos? Some of the guys I train with are certainly strong, but one in particular is amazingly skilled in grappling. (I'm not trying to brag or anything, he hasn't fought pro much yet, just pointing out how strength and skill can go together)

If someone out-strikes Tank, that's proof of skill over strength. That guy is HUGE.

You obviously don't know anything about MMA if you don't think skill plays a major part in it.

zen and Chan Buddhism play a MAJOR role in many martial arts. Are they internal? No.

Matt Bernius, I think Alex is just trying to say that skill plays a major factor in MMA now, because some other people keep trying to say it's more about determination and being a 'meathead'.

 

No sorry, not sure if there even are any. However, I've read some VERY convincing cases that support this and it makes sense to me. How can 'internal' and 'external' be different? 'Internal' styles have everything that external styles do (stances, techniques, etc). Some people use the terms 'hard' and 'soft' which IMO are even worse. How can they be 'hard' or 'soft'? Soft styles have attackers, and hard styles still have circular movements, blocks, deflections, and evading techniques. They aren't mutually exclusive, and those categories just don't work.

Well i understand what your saying Hsing i(very direct and aggresive) is very different from tai chi and Pau kua.
The term 'internal' is used to describe techniques and punches that are completly focussed on breathing. I know breathing goes with alot of martial arts, but is the main soarce of power. Internal martail artists rarely focus on arm strength and mostly focus on breathing. I dont agree with this. Imagine haveing really really strong arms AND having breath generated punchs?
Internal means breathing focussed.

 

Tank Abbot isn't a champion... he isn't the most skillful fighter in mma. If you can claim that there's no skill required in MMA tournaments then you've obviously not seen such fighters as Randy Coture, Cro cop, Jeremy Horn...

They're far from ' meat heads ' and are very skillful people, their good at what they do because they practise and are very skillful fighters.

 

yeah, that cant be denied. I would hate to get into the ring with one of those guys......