Ninjutsu & the Five Elements

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Chase, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. Chase

    Chase New Member

    Hi, I used to have a friend who learned from his father who showed me these groups of movements that were physical attacks asociated with an element. I was curious because I use the five elements in acupressure.
    Ingat ka, :confused:
  2. JimGould

    JimGould New Member

    Sanshin. What do you want to know?
  3. Chase

    Chase New Member

    Hi Jim, What are the movements associated with the elements called ;) ?
  4. SilentNightfall

    SilentNightfall Eien no Ninja

    As Jim said already, they are called the Sanshin no Kata, or Sanshin for short.
  5. Chase

    Chase New Member

    Hi SilentNightfall, Could you describe them to me briefly & how the movements relate to each other? Can you use a little bit of one with another? How basic are these elements to Ninjutsu?
    Ingat ka,
  6. Conquistador

    Conquistador New Member

    Hatsumi and ol American Bro. Steve have made up so much krap, they have put much shame and disrespect to Ninpo arts, bro.I was a Bujinkan along with 90% of my school, they are fools. Hatsumi is a good martial artist.
  7. Conquistador

    Conquistador New Member

    Hatsumi makes things up, but ok he is Soke.He has 15 dans every one other than him has 10 dans, Bujinkan are loco in the head.Bujinkan is not 100% Takamatsu Den.Hatsumi is some made up stuff!!!!!!!!!!
  8. Tudoggz

    Tudoggz Valued Member

    hmmmm wat do u mean by loco in the head? :confused:
    i know u mean crazy, but why?
  9. Chase

    Chase New Member

    Hey, I really didn't mean to start an arguement. All I want to know is how the five elements relate to each other & a discription of them would be nice, too. :) :)
  10. Zamfoo

    Zamfoo Valued Member

    Conquistador what did that have to do with the 5 elements? I'm sorry i don't know about them but i'm also waiting to see what they are.
  11. Chase

    Chase New Member

    Thanks for your support, I need all the help I can get. :D
  12. SilentNightfall

    SilentNightfall Eien no Ninja

    Do try to ignore the rants about the Bujinkan that pop up every so often. You'll notice that most of them are nothing but name-calling with no proof or evidence of what the person says is true. The Bujinkan is 100% Takamatsu-den tradition. I am sure that somewhere along the line Hatsumi-sensei may have added in techniques that he knows are proven to work, but that is why we are an ever-adapting system. If it works, it's Ninjutsu. I know I shouldn't bother addressing the issue of 15 Dans, but I will because I don't have enough time right now to address the Sanshin question. Anyway, Hatsumi-sensei didn't want anyone feeling as if they knew everything when they reached Judan so he created 5 additional ranks. No one has reached 15th yet. Furthermore, since when do we have to be traditional and have 10 ranks? We are not koryu. Hatsumi-sensei may do as he pleases in Japan and if it distinguishes us apart from the other Japanese ryuha of martial arts, so be it. Well, that's all for now. I'll try to get to the Sanshin question in between all my work if I can today. Otherwise, I'm sure someone else here can handle it. Ja!
  13. Soul Reaver

    Soul Reaver New Member

    Ok, the sanshin no kata question:

    Sanshin is a set of five techniques that are based on the feeling of each element. For example: When you do Sui no Kata (Water Form) you try to
    enbody the feeling of water. Water flows around obstacles through the path of least resistance, so when you feel like water, your counterattack flows around the aggressive thrust of your opponent`s attack, and redirects the force used on the blow to knock him down. Likewise, Ku no Kata (void form) creates an empty space between you and your opponent and makes him "lose" his movement, leaving an openning for your own strike.

    The sanshin is not a set of restricted moves, but rather a set of moves that represent the feeling of each element, thus it can be used in various moves and adapted to anything from dodging to weapon fighting.

    Now the actual description of the basic Forms (Kata):

    Chi - Earth

    Starting with your left arm semi-extended and you right arm on your right hip, with a closed fist, and your legs as if in Ichimonji no Kamae, you step forward with your
    right foot and thrust 3 fingers into the enemy`s throat with the right hand, while retracting the left to your left hip.

    Sui - Water

    Starting likewise, you step back on a 45 degree angle with your right foot,while striking the attacker`s inner forearm with your left fist with Jodan Uke. You then move your right foot so as to position yourself to the attacker`s side and strike his neck with your right hand just below the ear, using the outer edge of your hand (chop).

    ........ I`ll write the other three later, I have to leave now.....
  14. JimGould

    JimGould New Member

    Isn't the first one from Gogyo No Kata ;)
  15. takaharu

    takaharu New Member

    The complete name is Gogyo Sanshin no Kata and has 5 different kata named after the 5 elements.
    What you refer to as feelings connected with moves (Katas) was an invention of nr. Steven Hayes and had/has notting to do with the BJK.

    I am sorry but I disagree. Hatsumi Yoshiaki holds menkyo kaiden in Asayama Ichiden Ryu and this is many times seen in the hanbojutsu and some of his taijutsu move. So my guess is that he has mixed other martial arts into the BJK curriculum.

    "The short stick kata in his hanbojutsu book with Q.C. are for sure from the Asayama line" .

  16. SilentNightfall

    SilentNightfall Eien no Ninja

    The question, however, was not whether Hatsumi-sensei incorporates other ryuha into his own taijutsu and movement, but rather, if curriculum in the Bujinkan specifically contains techniques outside of the Takamatsu-den arts. As I stated, every once in a while you see techniques from outside of the art demonstrated because it is effective and can be added to our already plentiful repertoire, but no techniques outside of the nine schools of the Bujinkan are specifically taught in the curriculum. It can be equated to someone with experience in BJJ showing some techniques and defenses against such once during class. Sure, it isn't Takamatsu-den, but then again, it isn't part of the Bujinkan. Don't mistake occassional demonstrations of ryuha outside of the Bujinkan for being part of it. Well, that's all I have for now. Take care. Ja!
  17. Chase

    Chase New Member

    Hi Jim,
    I know I'm a pain in the butt, thank you for your excellent desription. I believe I generally understand, its based on the Japaneese five elements. I used to practice a chi kung style called the five animal frolics in which you tried to attain something of the spirit of each animal. Are there any animals associated with ninjutsu? ;)
    Ingat ka.
  18. Rus

    Rus New Member

  19. Chase

    Chase New Member

  20. JimGould

    JimGould New Member

    Sanshin and Gogyo are NOT the same. They are the same technique executed in a different way.

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