Just came across this thread and I see you have taken a lot of flak from some people here. Now I don't know if your trolling or not but lets me take a look at your questions in a polite and honest way. I believe this quote by you was written because someone posted the fact that Japanese arts like Ninjutsu should have Japanese names. Well you have to remember that the Hayes books (You brought him up) came out in the very late 1970s and eary 1980s and there was a reason why the kata names were not mentioned. From what I understand Dr Hatsumi asked that none of the Japanese names were mentioned. Latter that ban was lifted and the techniques started to be named and appear in latter books. And sure Stephen K Hayes is no longer teaching Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu or BBT and has founded his own style BUT although the style he teaches may not be everyone flavour he founded his style after three years living in Japan studying, numerous trips to Japan and having instructors coming to his home to teach i.e. Dr Hatsumi, Tanemura and Manaka to name a few and that process began in 1975 and To-Shin Do as founded 20 years latter. Which is something you have NOT done, yet I feel your comparing yourself in some way to him. Which is by the way the reason you are being ridiculed a little bit as there are people on this forum who have done twice, three times much training in this art as Stephen K Hayes, have lived longer in Japan, Speak and read fluent Japanese and made the flight to train there over two dozen times, and on top have tons of military experience. And finally as a black belt in TSD I can tell you that the art has Japanese words for its technique,so your comment... Is a bad example as its false. Oh yes and Frank Dux however is a complete fraud. Wasn't Mr Yamamoto his uncle? So based on the fact that we have only his word for it, I will take it at face value. How do you know it works? Oh wait i'm sure you are going to tell me that one of your students survived a certain encounter. Well sorry that really proves nothing. Theres too many variables there to even use that kind of argument as an example. I do actually for a few reasons. 1/ I think you are selling yourself short. Its a big mistake to sudenly start teaching "your own style". Trust me I know. Find a good legitimate teacher (Theres people on here who will help you) and you will reap the rewards. 2/ I actually think, based on this thread that your knowledge of martial arts is very limited and I actually think your students may not be getting the best instruction. Sorry thats the way I feel. But when I read comments like... I know you really havent got a clue about what your talking about. Well I can tell you straight up that that form you posted is not TSD. Finally you posted Then drop the ego, stop teaching the stuff your teaching and be genuine and ask here. As I said there are some really skilled and experienced instructors here on this forum. People who have decades of training in this art, travelled on numerous times to Japan or have actually lived there and speak the language. This is a great opportunity for you, so just ask who is the best person to train with in your area. But somehow I don't think your going to do that.
By the way didnt you post this question back in 2012 http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111715 and three years latter you still dont know the answer
Ok just found this http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124343&page=5 So it seems you have skirted around martial arts because of your condition, from reading this. And if I am correct, maybe you have started teaching as a way of learning as you feel that others wont accept you, or am I wrong here? I go back to what i said before. Ask how to find a good instructor. Many here have a military background and are aware of the issues you have and to be honest would probably be quite sympathetic towards your condition. But as I said, drop the ego and ask where you can get good instruction.
Is this you then Kevin? From- http://www.ninjutsu.com/NinjutsuForum/vbulliteen3/public_html/archive/index.php/t-1839.html
Yes that is me...my membership there is not current right now so I can't sign in there. Also, the email I was using during my IBDA membership is no longer valid, however I am friends with Shihan Van Donk on Facebook. Shihan and I have messaged each other only a little due to him being busy with his doings.
"Billy" would be easy to find as Bruce did not teach that many people for a real length of time - leaving aside the big JKD names (Inosanto, Bustillo, Hartsell, Fong, Wong, Poteet, etc) the list is quite short James Lee, Jesse Glover, Kipp Ellsworth, Tak Miyabe, James DeMille, Leroy Garcia, Taky Kimura, Ed Hart, Herb Jackson, Bob Bremer, Charlie Woo, Leroy Porter, Pat Hooks, Pat Strong, Howard Williams The chances of this individual being (a) taught by Bruce and (b) being in a movie with him is pretty remote and it is possible he was an extra on a film who used that into his own tale of prowess and training
There are 3 organizations that have a claim to teaching authentic ninjutsu. That's the 3 kans. If you count Jinichi Kawakami, that's 4. His claim is iffy, but then again it could be true and there are enough elements in his favor to not dismiss it without consideration. Regardless. the legit organizations are all based in Japan. Not surprisingly. In all of them, the techniques have Japanese names. We talk about a tsuki, a tate ken, ura take ori, etc. And we learn the names of the techniques. If the 'super secret thrust punch' :bang: has no Japanese name, then by definition it does not come from the few legit ninjutsu sources there are. Or at the very least, if he and hi sensei don't know the name of that technique, it is not being taught as authentic ninjutsu.
I'm not sure if your aiming the head banging at me or Mr Collins, but if its against me you appear to misread my post and you need to read it again. My point being that Mr Collins tried to use TSD as a suggestion that although TSD is authentic it uses English terms It doesnt it uses Japanese ones and so his example was a bad one. Of course still doesnt make TSD authentic,
I am working on my reply to garth as his posting is quite lengthy here and the quotes he used did not include the links to where I had said things so I'm having to go through and see the reasons I had said those things to give my proper response. But I feel the need to say this now before it goes farther than it already has. I never taught whole groups. The teachings I gave was to at most 2 individuals at a time. To give the clearest idea on this it was 2 brothers monday through friday for 1 month then I quit teaching these 2 people and never taught anything to them again. The last time I taught anything to anybody was 10 or 15 years ago in Michigan to one person who was having problems in his school and had anger issues. He wound up being a bully who used what I taught him to beat up his peers at school when they stood up against his bullying. His so-called training from me ended within a week after that. Since then...I have refused (and still refuse) to teach anything to anyone. Yes I was trying to help others but I was doing it in the wrong way...I was being dishonest about it. Thus the reason I refuse to teach anything to anyone for the past 10 or 15 yrs. Now if I may...I will continue with my response to garth and post it here when I am finished with it. He took the time to put his postings together...so I'm gonna take the time to prepare my response to his posts. I'm trying to straighten out this mess that I caused with my stupidness. Even though the damage may contain some irrepairableness I know at least being honest does something and I really hope thats enough to clean up enough to not be prevented at least to some degree or even turned away all the time. I will return soon...
The "western inventions" quote was quoting Count Duckula's use of it. The problem was that I had perceived that he was implying that western inventions are not authentic, but Count Duckula wasn't implying that at all. The problem was with me and I had used Stephen K Hayes and his authentic To-Shin Do and Frank Dux's unauthentic Dux Ryu Ninjutsu to show that while both are "western inventions"...one is authentic. Analogy check: "authentic" To-Shin Do vs "unauthentic" Dux Ryu Ninjutsu I have never read any of the Hayes books, so how could I remember. My means of verifying at that time were very limited as I did not have access to the internet or any other verifying venue's. I personally believe that on top of all the trips to Japan and all his training, Hayes had other very special credentials that enabled him to create his own authentic To-Shin Do such as the following... Stephen K Hayes, inventor of a western style of ninjutsu known as To-Shin Do is married to one of his highest and best instructors of To-Shin Do. Her name is Rumiko. How easy is it for the general public to learn that Rumiko is also Soke Masaaki Hatsumi's daughter? The only way I am even able to begin comparing myself to Stephen K Hayes is that we are both Americans..."westerners". So I must ask you, in what way do you feel I am comparing myself to SKH? I've never read or heard anywhere anything about whether Yamamoto and Kosugi were related, I have read that Sho only referred to him as uncle. Again, only Kosugi's word on it. No I'm not going to tell you that one of my students survived a certain encounter. I agree that really proves nothing. But you mention a variable scale...ok lets go that route. I'm not saying I have won all my fights in the past neither am I saying i will win any fights in the future. I will say this though, the fights I have lost were due to not wanting to fight and not knowing how to defend myself. After learning something...I have never lost a fight after that. And I know most everybody says thats a bold face lie and it makes me ask...were you there to document whether I lost or not. I was picky about the type of people I taught anything to. Before teaching them...they lost more than not...after teaching them...they won more than they lost which was very few times for each one. Whatever variables are left...I'm just gonna have to choke on those because the proof everyone seeks is not there. What is winning? Is it beating the crap out of somebody just because you can? That's a big NO! I agree I was selling myself short and was not honest and that those I had taught was not getting the best of instruction so I began refusing to teach anything to anyone a long time ago. So I havent got a clue about what I'm talking about??? Yeah that's right...go ahead and shoot me down for being fed a bunch of lies without having a way to verify whether they were true or not. That instructor teaching the form in the original post showed me a video he was in...who was I to call him a liar when I had no way of verifying the validity of his words...that video was not of To-Shin Do...it would have been before the creation of To-Shin Do. When he typed it up for me he did not have any of SKH early books where the kata names were left out and the names of the individual techniques possibly translated into english for the understanding of the western mind...don't quote me on that as I have said...I never read any of SKH early books. You believe I'm not going to do that??? Hmmm...It would be stupid of me not to swollow some pride and I quit teaching my garbage a long time ago and as far as you believing that I'm not going to seek authentic good instruction...well then sit back and watch me prove you wrong because it is my very intention to seek authentic instruction starting about the time i quit teaching my garbage. Furthermore I'm gonna seek it on my own time and not yours because you dont supply my every need to eliminate whatever limitations I may have in seeking that good and authentic instruction. If I have misread anything you have said...then my apologies. The rest of the posts here after garths long post I will respond to them later today.
Hmm Ok so don't quite understand why you used Stephen K Hayes as an example of athentic when as you said, you have never read any of his books. Sh's not. I don't know it was your analogy. Good I doesn't Whether you won or lose means nothing. I have a guy around my corner who has never done martial arts in his life but has never lost a fight. Why? because he's a huge guy and simply does not give in. The point is whether you won your fights using the martial arts you were taught. Nope Good Then if you have no way of verifying what you have been told why then pass what you have been told as lessons to other people as though they are the trut? Thats after all what you are doing. Its not TSD Good my reverse psychology worked Oh dear maybe it didn't work. So basically what your saying is that "I could ask the people on here for my nearest good Bujinkan Instructor, but i'm not going to do that because I don't really want to drop my ego" Its OK I see where this is going. I see you teaching another class teaching your own stuff sometime soon. But love it if you proved me wrong however.
Actually to be honest your "reverse psychology" did work. However, I feel while I needed to drop my ego, some ego is good and can be used as a driving force and so I am here. I have more than just one limitation. and some of those limitations I won't go into because they involve other people and the things they are suffering from. whether or not I won fights using the "martial arts" I was taught...let me say again... "I will say this though, the fights I have lost were due to not wanting to fight and not knowing how to defend myself. After learning something...I have never lost a fight after that." The words "after learning something" in that context obviously means that without the "martial arts" I was taught that I would have never won those fights. About Rumiko being Soke's daughter..."that instructor" says she is...You say she isn't...wouldn't that at this point be classified as "face value information" although you probably know Stephen and Rumiko on a personal level...I would be more inclined to believe your info over that instructor anyway. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you heard of the one I refer to as "that instructor". Last I heard he was looking to kill me so I'm not just gonna put his name out there and give him another venue key to find me...but i can send you a private message with his name and if you heard of him...whatever info you know...I'm sure you will know. In fact I'm sure Stephen himself would tell you whether or not he had a student by the name. Every time I mentioned making a trip to Dayton to visit them...he would never wanna go. passing the lies on as truth...you mean that's what I WAS doing as I have stated several time that I quit a long time ago and refuse to teach that garbage to anyone else.
Rumiko's maiden name is Urata and she's from the other end of Japan... Garth, there's no point engaging personal attack removed. We'll just be giving him material he can use to legitimize himself in front of his victims.
As Kouryuu says yes I do/did know Stephen Hayes personally. I have been to the dojo in Dayton, and I have had Mr and Mrs Hayes over to my house on at least three occasions over a period of three years, but thats by the by. I also have a shodan black belt from Mr Hayes but again by the by. Yes you can PM me the guys name but really this is about you. You can go on asking about the sequence of patterns in that movement and I told you its not TSD. I have also said that if you want help there are people who are much better qualified than myself to help you find a good teacher. Don't want to lay a burden on any single person here personally, but I can tell you that there is a person on here that has travelled to Japan on numerous occasions, is extremely knowledgable, helpful and holds the highest rank one can as a westerner achieve at the present time. The balls in your court, All you got to do is ask. I can't help you any more. Best of luck.
Actually, that was exactly what I was implying. Authentic ninjutsu can only be authentic if it is passed on by someone with official teaching authority in any of the authentic ninjutsu systems. If someone trains for a while, and then goes off to do his own thing, whatever he does is not authentic ninjutsu unless he or she received menkyo kaiden. It might still be called ninjutsu, we can argue about that all day long, but 'authentic', it is not. That's pretty much the definition of the word. That is not criticism towards toshindo. I've never seen it, and while I question the sanity of a westerner prancing around in gold brocade hakama and dogi, it might be a good system. Authenticity has nothing to do with practical skill and use, but only with formal transmission yes or no.
Okay this may be slightly off topic here but... really? You're saying that if someone knew everything Hatsumi knows but had no menkyo kaided (even if they're at that level of skill and knowledge or higher) that what they would be teaching is not ninjitsu? Please tell me you folks don't value paperwork more than skill.
This is kind of a moot point as that situation has never been encountered before or speculated about. Who knows what documentation Soke would hand to someone who knows everything he does?
I was using that as an exaggerated example not to get into that topic specifically. It just seems that Duckula was making the assertion that skills don't matter if you have paper and vice versa. I was saying and asking that I hope that's not true.
