Anyone ever see the similarities? I read in a history book (a couple actually)that hwarangdo was a big influence in the early forming of ninjutsu. The hwarangdo curriculum consists of unarmed, armed (using anything as a weapon), stealth tactics, and medical. Most ninjutsu curriculums i see, including the one ive trained under can fall into those categories.
Name a few. This is news to me. If the books are all coming from Hwarando practicioners, then the bias is clear. There should be some cold, hard facts to back up what these books say. But first we have to know what books are saying it. On a personal note, I doubt there is any substance to these claims.
I'm curious which history books state that as well. I don't doubt a coincidental similarity, but correlation-not-implying-causation and all, I don't think there's necessarily any connection.
What Korean history books? And how about books on NINJUTSU for a better idea of the origins of ninjutsu?
Don't confuse the martial art Hwarang Do with the Hwarang warriors (flowering youth) of the Silla Kingdom 57 B.C. to 935 A.D. As a system, Hwarang Do is no older than Hapkido, they both developed along similar lines, only Hwarang Do goes into the weapons side a little deeper, other than that they are very close siblings. Whatever propaganda Hwarang Do's hierachy might say, it is next to impossible to claim that the art they study is related to the art studied in the first century. The hwarang youth group were young men of noble blood who were chosen to defend the kingdom. They were schooled in Martial arts including Subak (hand & feet fighting) ssirum (wrestling), archery, the sword & various other weapons. The also studied poetry, calligraphy and dance extensively and lived by a code of honour very similar to the European Knights. During times of peace the study of martial arts was looked down upon, and few practiced them, so much has been lost to the sands of time. Due to Koreas history of invading forces, many of the indiginous Korean arts have been assimilted into those practiced by the occupiers, most recently Japan's annexing of Korea in the early 20th century up until independance after WW11. Understanderbly, Korea has been determined to promote Korean patriotism after such events, leading to Korean MA's establishment coming under the banners of TKS/HKD etc. HWD is a perfect example of this, and what better way than to make your art appealing then to link it to a legendary warrior caste from your countries history. Literally translated, Hwarangdo means the way of the flowering manhood, or the way of the hwarang warrior, either way, it is simply saying this style is endeavouring to follow the example set by the Hwarang. As far as a link with Ninjitsu is concerned, I'd say it is tenous at best. Many Korean's believing Jujitsu was developed from Korean Kwon Bop, and Ninjitsu must have been influenced by by Jujitsu seeing as it was practiced by their natural enemies. More likely is the fact that many countries develop fighting systens utalising mundane objects (such as fans/rice flails) as weapons, and Korea and Japan are no exceptions. DISCLAIMER!! There could be a fair bit of inaccuracy in this post due to the fact I'm typing from memory from my own research. For the record, from what I have seen, HwarangDo is a highly effective system and I am in no way trying to critcise it. :Angel:
Isn't 'Hwarang-tul' the last 'Kup' grade pattern before taking your black-belt test?...well,...within the ITF system anyway? I got as far as 'Teeg-eh-tul' before I jacked TaeKwon-Do in. I'll never forget when my friend Alan Cunningham (5th Degree GTF) said that he'd named his dog 'Tigue'. When I asked why?, he said, "Because she's a bitch".
I will Help you all out as far as the history of hwa rang do. I am a formmer member of that art and I will glady help you understand what hwa rang do is and is not. http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd1.htm http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd2.htm http://www.hwarangdo.com/hwarang.htm http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO/History/history/map.htm And for those of you that understand korean http://www.hwarangdo.or.kr/musul1.html And to help you all out even more this is taken from the hwa rang do forum http://www.hwarangdo.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=224 So next please have all the facts before making claims about arts that you have never been in.
no problem I love that art. The sad thing is there are no hwa rang do schools in my area. Well that is not true there is one here in mi but he is not with the world hwa rang do assoc. Also here is something from the forum I forgot to post the last time. http://www.hwarangdo.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=182 I hope this helps as well
Hwa Rang Do or Fa Rang Do? For a different perspective on the origins of modern Hwa Rang Do, try the website esi-lifeforce.com. There are some articles written by Bob Dugan (founder of ESI) and others. Dugan was present during the birth of modern HRD and helped write the book on it (literally).
Which makes it kind of ironic that the articles you listed try to portray Japanese arts as coming from Hwarang-do when the authors don't seem to have ever studied any Japanese art.
I hate to do this but Mr. Duggen was kick out of Hwa rang do for lying about hwa rang do techniques and history, his own rank, using his rank to under mind his female students. http://www.hwarangdo.com/judical.htm#verdicts His has dishonored himself and the martial arts family as a hole. But if you chose to believe his lies then that is up to you and what you feel is right. But that is up to you.
I hate to do this, but the orginization that tossed Mr. Duggen out seems to be rather cultish. Instead of dealing with the items Duggen deals with, you attack his charecter. That is not a sign of a respectable or honorable orginization.
no my friend it is not childish, it is putting the facts on the table. And they have tried to talk with him and see where he was coming from. But he wanted to go his way and they went theres. And I am sorry by your logic anything can be considered a cult. Just because you want to believe in something dosn't make it a cult. Besides none of us were there so you nor I can really make a call like that. Even though I know a few of the higher ups in hwa rang do. Dosn't mean that I know everything or that I clame to. My question to you sir is are you a member of WHRDA or there nock offs. Do you know what happened( trust me this not an attack on you.) I just want to see where you are coming from on this that is all.
The funny thing is why should it even matter what people in Ninjutsu or people that are in Hwa rang do or whatever art you are in do. The fact is do you love the art that you are in. We can go on for days in a childish game of name calling and what ever. It still will not change the fact that we love the arts that we are in other ways we would not be in them. The truth is that most of us will never be like bruce lee in the movies and take on 10 to 20 guys at a time. Most of us will end up dying of old age some where. So the guestion is why train. We train to live. To improve the quality of our life and those around us. Not to get into little BS things of he said she said. We are martial artist for better or worse. And we need to start holding ourselves to a higher standered of charater. but that is just my thought
Korean Warrior I look at the arts today (I maybe wrong but heard someone say that Hatsumi said,If it works it's taijutsu)My son is in Kuk sool won and I have studied Ninjutsu so i can see both styles. I can care less how it came about but I respect the person that brought it . I look at other arts to learn to deal with them an take what I like from them but my foundation is Taijutsu. Politics in any thing will always get nasty so that's why I look at the style and see what it has to offer and not get caught up in the mudslinging.
