BJJ has proven effective time and time again. There is very little evidence of Ninjitsu doing well in full contact competitions. I don't have to know all the techniques to know it doesn't really work.
From what I've seen of Ninjitsu it doesn't have anything to offer that isn't treated more effectively by another art. BJJ at least has the right to boast having the most effetive ground fighting out there.
"Agreed the boxer had no ground game ...All he did [steve jennum] was sit on him and GnP until a loose arm was there for the taking. The boxer wouldve done the same had Steve gone to the ground" This is what it looks like when someone contradicts themself. The boxer untrained in groundfighting would have dropped bombs till he saw a chance at an armbar?
You do realise the mount and armbar is not completely exclusive to BJJ? Ive seen school yard fights that ended up in mount position but neither knew what they were doing. An armbar is an armbar, its in a lot of arts that involve some form of grappling. If had worked his way from side mount to full mount while keeping close to him and then grabbing his arm and working it into an armbar then ye id agree with you. But the fact that he just sat on him and lobbed some punches in his face (and a headbutt), also if i remember he couldve taken his back for a RNC, to me shows he lacked a decent ground game. But didnt the BJJers start getting owned by the wrestlers?? So on that ninjutsu < BJJ < Wrestling. Looks like i should take wrestling for my ground game, i also get decent take downs in wrestling too!! My original post wasnt there take away the effectiveness of BJJ, i just pointed out the reason why it was so dominant back then and also noted to you that neither fight had a decent ground game
I was meant to put: The boxer wouldve done the same had Steve gone to the ground but obviously not gone for the armbar. Sorry its 4am and im knackered Muay Thai doesnt boast a ground game either, are you gonna start saying that its ineffective?
I actually come from a wrestling background and yeah it really helps. I think the wrestlers started dominating because they were the most athletic groundfighters out there. All the good wrestlers started learning bjj. Look at couture and henderson, both olympic class wrestlers and what are they doing in the octagon when the fight hits the ground.
lol.. Im pretty sure the armbar in Ninpo has existed long before your friends stole it out of the Judo syllabus. Ninjutsu straight from a reputable organization has never even been in a mainstream full contact match... How can you base your proof on something that is non-existant? Wrong.. And ninpo wins hands down at weapons training. And mutiple training... etc. Ding.
The only reason I was mentioning all that about the groundgame was because the only evidence i had found so far of Ninjitsu doing well in MMA was a GnP ending with an armbar. MT is obviously ecxtremely effective in stand up fighting (I started training in it for standup), but I have never heard of any good ninjitsu strikers. I didn't mean to sound like one of those grapplers that refuses to take striking seriously.
alright ive had too much green pie to argue with this many people at once. i almost finished the whole slice. can you really not talk about drugs?
Who has ever said that a style has to do good in an MMA match to be effective? I know you arent trying to be a dick, and I'm not either.. I'm just saying that we get enough trolling in the ninjutsu section, and Im trying to stop the misinformation that creates them.
From what ive read, i dont do wrestling, i was always its under the belief was that they understood positional dominance so the BJJ guys couldnt get into the positions as easy to sink their subs in. Also i thought they'd take BJJ as its full of useful sub's which is lacking from a lot of forms of wrestling. Not the ground game knowledge.
Alright one more thing i have to say "Ninjutsu straight from a reputable organization has never even been in a mainstream full contact match... How can you base your proof on something that is non-existant?" Why aren't any ninjitsu guys competing and winning lots of money? I mean i understand traditional styles dont take that philosophy. But surely if the techniques were all that effective wouldn't someone have introduced them by now?
Wrestlers are usually very good at positioning but the positions they use are from BJJ. Wrestlers go for pins so most of their positions involve avoiding putting your back to the mat.
Wrestling has been around a hell of lot longer than BJJ. There is only so many things the body can do so its no suprise to find similarities in styles, esp if they focus on a particular area
It was also my understanding that ninjitsu uses pressure points. If this isn't true i appologize, but pressure points dont really work in high pressure situations.
"Wrestling has been around a hell of lot longer than BJJ. There is only so many things the body can do so its no suprise to find similarities in styles, esp if they focus on a particular area" Yeah BJJ evolved from less competitive styles very recently so it hasn't had the chance to mature as a sport. I think part of why wrestlers are still doing so well has something to do with the greater number of wrestlers out there that have trained since they were really young.
I respect Ninjitsu and JuJitsu for their role in martial arts history. Without JJ there would be no Judo and no BJJ, I just think its wrong to ignore the evolution of groundfighting in the face of all the evidence out there proving it really has evolved.
Theres more to fighting than 2 guys fighting each other until the other submits. If you would like to get into more detail, try the ninjutsu forum. Do we use pressure points? Something like that. Do they work in high pressure situations? Yes. Again, if you want to get into more detail, you can try the ninjutsu forum.
I think someone mentioned training for multiple opponents 'multiples'. Ive actually been looking for something besides krav maga that does much of it. What do the ninjitsu guys do to prepare for that kind of conflict? I'm not saying its not possible, but I'm skeptical because I've been in those situations and its been my experience that lots of tough angry dudes are impossible to stop as a single person.
"Do we use pressure points? Something like that. Do they work in high pressure situations? Yes. Again, if you want to get into more detail, you can try the ninjutsu forum." I've never really done the forum thing before so i might be way off base. just thought it was relevant in a discussion comparing ninjitsu, jj, and bjj since faith in a less effective set of techniques (pressure points) would be an indication of less intense training methods.
