Ninjitsu Vs. jujitsu

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by lucianb, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. lucianb

    lucianb New Member

    can anyone tell me arguments y is ninjitsu better or worse that jujitsu.

    i want to do jujitsu but some say that ninjitsu is better, i am in doubt, plz convince me.

  2. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    And I still stand by it. Take either jujutsu or ninjutsu, or both. Then decide for yourself. The two arts will probably overlap so much that ninjutsu is just like a style of jujutsu (or vice versa, but it's OUR sub forum ;)) that it really depends on the instructor more than the style.

    If you'd like to ask some more questions we'd be happy to answer.
  3. lucianb

    lucianb New Member

    from what i heard ninjutsu is better than jujitsu because in the field of self defence is better (more dangerous) but on the other hand jujitsu is considered a sport.
    and how much time do you need to master jujitsu or ninjutsu?
  4. Kirberus

    Kirberus Valued Member

    I can't speak for Jujitsu, but I know about ninjutsu. Ninjutsu covers strikes, grappling, throws, locks, breakfall, weaponry, etc. It's rather well rounded and covers everything. It is effective, it is a combat art, and could possibly be more dangerous but I don't know as I haven't done jujitsu. They are rather different from what I know, the only real similarity being the jitsu/jutsu at the end, that I know of. I don't think they are subsets of each other or even related in many ways, but someone with more experiance may know more. To master ninjutsu, I don't think you can really master it apart from being the grandmaster. It'd take about 5 or so years to get to blackbelt I think, depending on dedication and teacher. My sensei has been in ninjutsu for 20+ years and he is a 12th degree black belt, out of 15 Dan ranks, so that should give you some clue.

    Just like Aegis has said, do what art works best for you. Try both, see which one you like more, and stick with it.
  5. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    Who told you that? Like Aegis said, they're equal as arts, it's all in the execution. I've got a friend who does ninjutsu and we show each other what we've been learning in our respective classes from time to time. From what I've noticed so far, they seem to be very similar technique-wise, it's just the delivery that differs, combinations etc
    Which type of ju jitsu do you mean? From the above statement, I'm assuming you're looking at taking Brazillian jiu jitsu (BJJ) which is more sport-orientated and focuses a great deal on ground-fighting techniques. There is also Japanese ju jitsu which is a well-rounded combat system encompassing striking, locking, throwing and some ground work, much like ninjutsu. Hope this cleared some things up for you
  6. Sobukwe-Biko

    Sobukwe-Biko New Member

    THis question is hard because they are complete opposites, I'm not sure why people seem to think they are similar, Maybe b/c they sound similar?. The Sufix "Jitsu" means tecnique there are thousands of "Jitsus" ie Ninjitsu Ninja-Tecnique "ju" meaning soft ie. Soft-Tecnique for Jujitsu. Back to the question Ninjitsu is cool i guess but are you trying to be an assassin? I mean Ninjas are wayyy over romanticized which is probaly why people think it's better, all they were were assassins, so ninjitsu is not nearly as applicable as Jujitsu, and in my opinion Ninjitsu is a little outdated and silly, that is unless you are trying to kill someone. Go for the ultimate grappling tecnique JUJITSU!
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2004
  7. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Possibly because they ARE similar, despite what you seem to think. I know people who have trained in both ninjutsu and jujutsu, and they state that the unarmed stuff is almost identical in many respects and very similar everywhere else. The main difference is that ninjutsu sometimes teaches different weapons use, while jujutsu tends to stick to the bushido weapons (swords, knives and maybe sticks)

    Or art. Or even "magic", though that's a mistake in translation using the wrong pronunciation (jitsu as opposed to jutsu)
    Have you even SEEN a modern ninjutsu class? Do you know any real ninjutsu organisations that claim to be training their students to be assassins? I suggest you do a bit more research into legitimate ninjutsu, as you seem to be sorely lacking in knowledge of this system. As I mentioned above, most modern ninjutsu is almost identical to modern jujutsu.

    Don't get me wrong, I love jujutsu, but it's not for everyone, nor is it the ultimate grappling art.
  8. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    You've been misinformed. Anyone who tells you that ninjutsu is more dangerous than jujutsu is leading you on. The arts contain mostly the same techniques (bit difficult to come up with new ways to damage people after so many years) and are equally dangerous when used by a skilled practitioner

    I don't consider jujutsu to be a sport and I've been doing it for about 6 years in total now. Some styles focus on sport, others don't. Guess which one mine is ;)

    I'll reiterate my point earlier though, just go along to whatever classes are in the area and make an informed choice. Don't rely on opinions you find online, as they are often biased and/or wrong
  9. Kirberus

    Kirberus Valued Member

    Well I was going to tear Sobukwe a new one about ninjutsu but you already did a good enough job for now Aegis.

    Like Aegis said. Assassin /= Ninja or vice versa. Ninjutsu is about survival, not killing. Look for posts made by SilentNightFall or Kurohana and learn up some on ninjutsu.

    As for the similarities, I gotta watch some Jujutsu people someday and see for myself how similar they are. I have no idea as of this point so I can't really say.
  10. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    and for the non computer literate of you, a short translation of:


    Just in case anyone thought it meant equal to :)
  11. Kirberus

    Kirberus Valued Member

    Yeah, thanks. I guess I'm too used to programming analogies. Forgot that a lot of people don't know about that sort of thing. :rolleyes:
  12. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    while (conversatio=retarded)
    Talk ninja
    own troll
    Oh go on...}}
  13. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    np, I guess someone had to find a use for mods eventually. In my case it probably took longer than most...

  14. Sobukwe-Biko

    Sobukwe-Biko New Member

    Perhaps I gave the Wrong message, IT was a hasty post, and I did not articulate as I ment to. I have been to ninjitsu classes (no longer) and I know they are not training assassins, I exgaerated. What I ment was more traditional Ninjitsu (such as the classes I attended) is far more...well traditional. Unlike a pure grappling form such as jujitsu that can easily incorrperate element of Japanese JJ and BJJ as well as Russian Sambo Ninjitsu, which as I'm sure you know was created for one purpose, to counter the Samurai's combat effectiveness, and because as I'm sure you also know in fuedal Japan weapons were illeagal for non-members of the Samurai class, so to counter this like many Japanese MA's, Ninjas used many concealed weapons and used stealth to stay out of harms way. They also used "dishonnorable" tactic like asssination. So because ninjitsu was such a specialized art, It is safe to assume today with the consantly evolving MA world the average Ninjitsu Dojo will be more traditonal... Ie. not as applicable. Of course there are exceptions to this as with all MA's but it is a semi-safe assumption. And as far as them being "similar" aren't all MA "similar"? I mean they many element that are similar but no more than say, Mantis Kunfu and Tai-Chi. similar is Shotokan and Goju Kai, Similar is Tang su do and TKD, if anything Ninjitsu is a jujitsu counter not relative. traditional Jujitsu has no real stand-up that can compete w/ NJ, just as a ninjitsu master would have a damn hard time dealing w/ an Armbar from the full mount, or a bent armlock from kasakatami.

    I'm done

    ps. I know there is no "ultimate" grappling tecnique. BUT JJ is Damn better for it then NJ, and if you disagree when has NJ EVER done well in a MAA competition vs. a grappler?
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  15. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Not more traditional than traditional jujutsu classes. If you compare modern jujutsu to modern ninjutsu there will be more similarities, and then it's a fair comparison too.

    In which case it's not really jujutsu any more but a hybrid art, which can also be done with ninjutsu.

    And for survival. I won't go into this any more as my knowledge of ninjutsu is fairly limited.

    And still learned to fight with the same dedication that the samurai had. They weren't using an inferior form of fighting and making up for it by being stealthy, they would have had their own method of unarmed and armed fighting for dealing with opponents from all angles, not just on sneak attacks.

    Maybe some of them, but they hardly spent their entire time learning to just assassinate people.

    Not really. One could argue that jujutsu would be more traditional because the old schools practiced most of their techniques while wearing armour and against weaponry. Jujutsu has modernised, so has ninjutsu.

    I'm sure most people here have heard that to "assume" is simply to make an ass of u and me. Assumptions are bad, facts are good. I've seen excellent ninjutsu and bad jujutsu, and a lot in between. the two styles really aren't that far apart. Seriously, how many ways are there to break a bone or throw someone about? Ninjutsu and jujutsu both operate largely as standing grappling arts and contain an awful lot of identical techniques.

    Comparing Muay Thai to Tai Chi I'd say that not all martial arts are similar. Jujutsu and ninjutsu are though.

    Traditional jujutsu is almost all standup except for a few schools where they dealt with groundwork extensively. Most koryu jujutsu schools didn't seem to bother with it much at all.

    I doubt any old Japanes master would have put an armbar on from a full mount. Like I said, only a couple of jujutsu schools even covered groundwork.

    Personally I don't usually care how well an extremely well trained athlete has done in a MMA event. I care more for how someone like me can make use of techniques within an art for self protection. I could make ninjutsu work just as well as jujutsu for me given good instruction.
  16. Sobukwe-Biko

    Sobukwe-Biko New Member

    Well we could Banter back and fourth for days, so good debate, I wish we could have it in person mainly because you and I are probably misundersatding eachother I know you are mis-interpreting what I'm saying, but like i said good debate.

  17. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    I don't think I'm misinterpreting. Let me summarise what I feel you are saying:

    • Jujutsu and ninjutsu are essentially different arts at the core level
    • That ninjutsu is somehow more traditional than jujutsu despite both arts coming from the same era (with jujutsu possibly being older and more filled with tradition)
    • That jujutsu focuses on groundwork techniques and ninjutsu uses standup
    • That ninjutsu used tactics which are no longer viable and this somehow leaves a hole in their training
    Am I right and have I missed anything? I tried to address all of these points in my previous post.

    Thanks for reading
  18. Kirberus

    Kirberus Valued Member

    Alright, so you aren't like most people who think ninjutsu is about assassination. Ninjutsu is specialized in that it is a combat art and designed for self-defense and real fighting. It could be more traditional but it really depends on the teacher and the jujutsu. The assassination thing is over done, it was only done if absolutely necessary. Ninjutsu does not have a lot of killing in it. You can kill with it but the point isn't to kill. The point is to defend yourself. If you need to kill to do it, then that is what needs to be done. As with any other art, you are supposed to only use the minimum force necessary. Ninjutsu wasn't created to counter the samurai, but techniques that worked will against the samurai made it into the art as well as many samurai techniques, since they are good for staying alive. It is an art about preservation and staying alive.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2004
  19. Graham

    Graham Valued Member

    A cynic might say that some ninjitsu and jujitsu look similar because in the 1980s a load of 'ninja' films inspired jujitsu instructors, mainly in the US, to remarket their product as 'ninjitsu'. This might explain why the US has more ninjitsu masters than Japan.
  20. Sobukwe-Biko

    Sobukwe-Biko New Member

    Damn we got some steadfast warriors here, NIce! fine to contiue........

    Big Aegis- everything you said sounded good but....- "That ninjutsu is somehow more traditional than jujutsu despite both arts coming from the same era (with jujutsu possibly being older and more filled with tradition)"-
    Jujitsu is older not doubt ninjitsu was created specificly to battle the samurai class, thats a fact, and therefore is MORE specialized, And Because it is more specialized it is MOre likely that any school you go to is LESS likley going to incorporate modern effective hybrid methods.... Which is fine, just less effective (which was the original question)

    Big Kurbb-
    "Ninjutsu wasn't created to counter the samurai, but techniques that worked will against the samurai made it into the art as well as many samurai techniques. It is an art about preservation and staying alive."- I'm sorry but that is just WRONG not be rude but your facys are wrong I'll give you some good links if you want but Ninjitsu was created for one reason as a rebellious MA to battle the Samurai class.

    Ya'll turn to rebutle

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