Ninjas existed by necessity Um, when I'm not speaking in Japanese, I'll feel free to make plurals by adding s... also, Shinobi is written with only the one character while ninja has the character for "one who does" added on. They both mean the same thing in this context, though. What are Navy SEALS? They're soldiers specially trained in a variety of survival and combat techniques for use when the powers that be would rather avoid a direct confrontation. Ninjas are basically the medieval Japanese equivalent of Navy Seals. When some warlord needed some espionage or assassination type work done, he would hire Ninja through their Jounin or Chuunin (the elders who dealt with the business aspect), who would dispatch Genin to do the job. It would be strange if Japan's wartorn feudal era had not produced such proffesionals. Demand for a skill combined with a lot of poverty will supply just about anything. The so-called Ninja villages, the most famous being Iga and Kouga, were both destitute and so were willing to undertake such dangerous and difficult work. I would also conjecture that these villages were home to retired/exiled warriors of various wars gone by, which would explain their martial prowess. My favorite is when people ask: who would win, a ninja or a samurai? My answer is "you're comparing apples to oranges." If they were in a duel-type situation, each allowed only one sword and no means of escape then the Samurai would probably win. The ninja way to deal with this situation would be to run away and later slip poison into the Samurai's tea.
Hi Onyomi, Welcome to the Ninjutsu forum. Why don't you let the folks know what your background is in Ninjutsu? Just so they know where you are coming from and what your level of experience is? I think someone will probably mention that Samurai and Ninja were not so different. :Angel: As far as the Plural thing goes well aren't Ninja and Samurai Japanese words??? Therefore I would have thought that the rules of English grammar do not apply, so why put an “s” on? Anyway that’s straying form the thread slightly.
Whether or not you are speaking in Japanese or English or Engrish, ninja is ninja, no matter how many. What's the plural of moose? Meese? Mooses? Same with samurai. Second point, and this has been done to death here and elsewhere, ninja are/were not the equivalent of Navy Seals. Read back thru and learn. Navy Seals are Navy Seals, the ninja are/were ninja. You cannot change that no matter how many times you repeat it or insist otherwise. Where that true then the moon truly would be made of green cheese and the earth flat. You cannot change another country's language nor history.
sorry I didn't mean to say that Ninjas were the same as Navy SEALS, obviously there are tons of differences, I was just saying that the role they played for feudal Japanese lords was somewhat similar to that played by SEALS now. Also, I think Ninja and Samurai are very different. As far as the traditional Japanese class system (warrior, farmer, craftsman, merchant, untouchable) was concerned,the samurai occupied the highest rank (though their finances often didn't reflect this). They were bound to their lords by Bushido and were essentially warrior retainers. Ninja, on the other hand, were mostly hated and feared by the Japanese populace and were more or less spies/assassins-for-hire. Being a ninja was not glamorous--it would definitely fall into the category of work the modern Japanese call "Triple K"--"kitanai, kitsui, kiken." (dirty, difficult, and dangerous). Ninja were not bound by Bushido and would employ any means necessary to accomplish their mission and survive. I'm not saying the Ninja had no honor--I'm sure there were probably at least some spoken or unspoken rules of conduct amongst them as in any profession, but how often do you hear of a Ninja commiting seppuku? I don't mean to sound overly authoratative, but I have studied Japanese language, culture and history for many years and have also studied in Japan for over a year. I realize this doesn't make me an authority on Ninjutsu by any means (I'm mostly a Chinese Martial Artist), but being an MA and Japanese culture enthusiast I have read a lot about the subject of Japanese warfare and this is what I have gathered about the reality of the Ninja. Anyway, feel free to correct me or otherwise add any info. you might have about the Ninja's position in Japanese society, etc.
*sigh* Once more into the breach, dear friends. . . Maybe we should have yet another permanent "sticky" at the top of the forum to cover this subject and make it clear that most of those we'd call "ninja" were in fact samurai.
It's a shame that due to modern media and a number of other inaccurate sources that even our contemporaries in other arts have a misguided view. It’s not until you really look at the Art that you realise just how much incorrect info is out there!!!
? So... you're saying that many Ninja were former Samurai? That I can believe, but with emphasis on the former... Rounin perhaps? I know that Ninja were certainly not accorded the respect in society given to Samurai and generally worked (or at least pretended to work) in some other innocuous profession to hide their real job. Since when did samurai practice camouflage, swim underwater with bamboo snorkels, scale walls, hide in trees? Are you saying the ninja didn't really do these things or that the Samurai did?
No, not former samurai- samurai. Check out the following article on the real story and realize why Dale Seago made a point of sighing after reading what you wrote. http://www.bujinkanwakodojo.com/bwd_kogaryu_history.html
for sum reason....sumthing deep down inside tells me there are still ninja that exist.................maybe they are not as traditional in the wearing the suits and the weapons...but i am still have a feeling that there are great ninja families that still exist but forbid to continue the practice of ninja from there great grandfathers and etc. they probly still have some secret techniques also.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please somebody, shoot me now!! Please do some research, how many times this month have I seen the same post, over and over in my head.
still a ? Well, the article was interesting, but I still don't see how ninja=samurai. I can see how the two categories could overlap, but I just don't see Miyamoto Musashi climbing trees and throwing shuriken. Or did he? Or did the ninja not do these things?
Musashi Miyamoto won his first "death match" by knocking over his armed opponent and beating him to death with a bokken. I'll try to dig up my sources (more than 2) and cite them for veracity, but I think you see my point. A man willing to UFC-style body slam someone into the ground, then proceed to beat the heck out of them a la "Bokken Ground and Pound" would definately not shy away from intelligent tactics. May you achieve Satori
the line blurs... I see now that the line between samurai and ninja may not have been as distinct as I once thought... though I never assumed that Samurai only killed people in the most elegant fashion possible... but still a little confused... so, some samurai were also ninja, but not all samurai were ninja... but all ninja would have considered themselves samurai??? In addition to the difference in the way society perceived them, I also thought that Samurai used primarily a combination of Kendo and Jujutsu-type techniques, while the ninja used, well, Ninjutsu. To what extend did their fighting styles/training overlap and to what extent did they differ? What about Chuushingura? I mean, when Killing Kira, Ooishi supposedly first offered him the chance to honorably commit seppuku and afterwards paraded through the streets despite the knowledge that doing so would doom him and his comrades... all because Bushido demanded it. It seems the ninja thing to do would be sneak in, kill Kira in his sleep and sneak off...I mean, doesn't Ninjutsu stress survival?...although the way they broke into his house at night does seem kinda ninja-ish... I know my impressions of ninja are probably being colored by movies at this point, but I want to understand why you all say ninja=samurai.
Ninjutsu isn't technically a fighting system, I believe (I think it more classically referred to the 'stealing-in' stuff). Hell, for the most part what we do isn't referred to as 'Ninjutsu' any more for the most part, but 'Budo Taijutsu' or the likes. Oh, and shuriken and shinobi methods aren't solely the province of the 'Ninpo' arts - I believe there are still some Koryu Bujutsu (i.e, Samurai) schools in existence that have elements of Ninjutsu and Shurikenjutsu. In fact, there's a hugely informative webpage out there on different types of Shuriken that barely lists anything to do with the Bujinkan and its schools. I just wish I could remember the URL.
Comments like this from the breakdancing ninja make my time on here a lot more enjoyable!! Something deep down rumbling inside me (no not wind!! ) tells me Santa might just be real?!?!?
