Ninjas are fictional?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by David, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    Someone yesterday was telling me that Ninjas never existed, that they were merely heavies in black clothes sent out to terrify peasants into handing over more koku. He went on to say that all the Ninja stuff we have today is the result of the Japanese after surrendering in WW2 getting back at bigheaded American soldiers by scaring them with Ninja-revenge threats.

    This chap explained that all the dirty work was done by Geisha or Shinobi, when it wasn't done 'honourably' by Samurai.

    It was so off-the-wall, I didn't know what to say.

    Please, no apoplexy :D.

  2. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Ok I’ll bite!!!

    What was his definition of Shinobi????
  3. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    He and I both thought Shinobi were agents provocateurs (rabble-rousers), diplomats - that kind of thing.

    I really don't mean to launch negative threads in this area. Sorry!

  4. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    No problem, David. Everything in Japanese which is written in kanji characters has more than one pronunciation, generally with the meanings still being related. It might interest you to know that ninja and shinobi are exactly the same thing, in the sense that they are simply alternative pronunciations of the same characters.
  5. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    uhh... I really really wonder where people get this stuff from. Honestly, how? How can someone be so incredibly wrong.

    I'll just answer and say: "Yes they did exist. No nothing you/he said is remotely accurate, and you should feel ashamed!"
  6. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    well not ashamed... but at least embarrassed...
  7. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    Apart from the embarrassment I feel, what do I actually tell him? If he'd said kung fu was invented in the 70s, I'd have loads of stuff to trash his opinion with. About ninjas, I'm too ignorant :(.

    The Shinobi kanji thing is cool but doesn't quite rebuff him in full. Got any more? There was an old Ninjutsu master on Mind, Body n Kick Ass Moves - if he was training it before WW2 or his teacher was then that'd be enough for him cos it proves a line going back. Who was that man?

  8. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    duh kungfu was invented in the 60's
  9. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    That man was Hatsumi Sensei :)
  10. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    And his teacher certainly was training before WW2
  11. JibranK

    JibranK Valued Member

    Here are some historical ninpo works.

    Hope this helps,
  12. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    That's a cool site and weird with the Chinese references! Thankyou.

  13. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Well there were ninjas at one time, thats been shown. But today I don't believe there are any "real" ninjas other than the teenage boys jumping around the woods.
  14. Satori81

    Satori81 Never Forget...

    Also...the term "Ninjas" in regards to the plural form of "Ninja" is a misnomer. Japanese terms do not add an "s" for plural.

    In other words, "I'm surrounded by thousands of Ninjas and Samurais!!" is incorrect. "I'm surrounded by thousands of Ninja and Samurai!!" is correct. could definately say "Ninjas do not exist, but Ninja do".

    May you achieve
  15. Peaceful Tiger

    Peaceful Tiger Happy Member

    Tell someone he's talking out his backside.

    The 'Ninjutsu master' whom you saw on 'Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves' is a man called Masaaki Hatsumi, he is the Grandmaster of the Bujinkan Dojo from Noda City in the Chiba Prefecture of Japan. His teacher was a man called Toshitsugu Takamatsu (known as the 'Mongolian Tiger'). Takamatsu's teacher was a man called Shinryuken Toda.

    Since the majority of people on this forum train in the Bujinkan and many have been to Japan, then no doubt someone more qualified than I will give you further information.

    Considering Soke Hatsumi is in his seventies and I've shown you who his teacher was, then you can see that the lineage goes well beyond WW1, nevermind WW2.
    Authentic Ninjutsu can trace its lineage back at least 900 years.

    You sound very young and naíve but we all were once so I wouldn't worry. It was good that you showed the initiative of coming here and asking for the opinion of the forum members here instead of just taking this someone's word for it.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2005
  16. ShadowHunter

    ShadowHunter Living the Dream

    Dave, who the hell was it? This person is talking a load of bulshido!

    I can assure you that Dave is neither young nor naive, at all, being a very skilled Mantis Kung Fu-ist and a mate of mine.
  17. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    That says it all SH!!! :D
  18. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    I thought they made Kylie's underwear? :D
  19. ShadowHunter

    ShadowHunter Living the Dream

    Greg, with that sense of humour, I really want to be you.
  20. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    No, honestly, you don`t!!!!! :cool:

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