Hi. I just wanted to put my thoughts on Ninja's and their arts in here. I am currently learning Ninjukai Taijutsu and I am finding it to be quite fun (and not just cos I get to beat up my brother). I was just wondering if there are any people here who are learning any of the forms of ninjuts or ninjukai here because if not I would like to enlighten you as to the realities of what ninjas are all about. and if there are any people out there doing ninja then I would like to talk to you about what you think of it. Oh and on the point of if you would like to see a ninja fight a kung fu expert I'd say no. Ninjukai is one of the most dirty, deadly and messy fighting techniques I have seen and any fight involving them will usually be over very quickly or end up in a ground wrestle, while watching two people who know what they are doing is entertaining, it isn't really a "good fight".
Welcome Darzeka, Ninjitsu has been recommended to me in the past, however, I haven't been able to find a reasonably local club for this. Is there any websites you could recommend that will go into detail about what this martial art entails? Hope you enjoy the forum and look forward to seeing further posts from you.
hmmmm could you explain Ninjukai and it's background for me? I am beginning in the Bujinkan system but have never heard of the system you study. Rob
Website Yeah the site is http://www.ninjukai.com.au It's a little bit outdated but it still has all the history and info on it and some pics as well. In short I think that ninjukai taijutsu is similar to the other ninjutsu systems like bujinkan but none of the people that I train have had a chance to compare it with them because over here there seems to be some kind of hostility toward our art from the Bujinkan people around here. Apparantly we aren't a true "ninja" art. Personally I don't care if what I'm learning is a "true" ninja art, its fun, its getting me fit and I'm learning how to defend myself. It doesn't matter if its the way they did it thousands of years ago it still works. Back to the background of the art - when the Samurai code got broken up into the other forms of martial arts into "sports" (i use the term loosely and will probably post on this later) some smart cookie in Japan decided to keep teaching his art in another country, this is what Ninjukai Taijutsu is. Through research, teaching and logical inference the masters have managed to in essence recreate what the ninjas were about. We know that we will never be able to know what the art was like in ancient Japan and we don't claim to be that. This art is only about improving yourself and so there are no tournaments which is why it is not heard of much. As to what we learn, we learn pretty much everything everyone else does. We get taught how to do the flashy high kicks of other arts, mainly for the purpose of learning how to counter them. There are things we learn that are quite unique to the art most of which is in the stance we fight with and in how to think about fighting, wrestling and how the body works. There are no Katas that we learn. The closest thing to that is our block and strike drill (you stand in front of another person they come through with a punch, you block it then you strike, with intent to hit) and our grading siutations for our throws and rolls + strikes. These are very dynamic as we add an element of realism and pressure to the gradings. We learn weapons as well but these aren't taught till the later levels - first weapons Bo and Katana (I know that is not a traditional "ninja" weapon but you learn the weapons of your enemies first) at the green to blue syllabus which generally takes a year to reach - other weapons we learn are wakazashi, knife, hanbo, jo, Manriki-gusari, Kama and a few others. I better stop there because I could just go on and on about this stuff - its so awesome. Because of the difficulty with finding someone to compare ninja arts I would like to discuss this with anyone just out of curiousity.
Interesting site. I am curious as to the lineage of ninjukai. What ryu is it descended from? Who has the scrolls? How did it make it's way from Japan to Singapore? Not trying to bust your chops, just trying to learn. Yes, I am a Bujinkan practioner (20+ years), but I am a bit more open minded than some of my fellows. Why the wait to teach weapons? In the Bujinakn the idea is, if you can do taijutsu you can learn weapons, seeing how a weapon is just an extension of your body. We usually start with the hanbo, knife, manriki-kusari ( though I haven't seen that one used in training in awhile) These are tools that a more readily available compared to a bo and katana. To answer your question Cougar. Yes, dirty as in groin destroying, biting, ripping anything is a target, do what is necessary to survive dirty. Looking forward to hearing more from you! (p.s. 100th post!)
I've always wondered why more systems don't do kusari work, considering it's one of the few weapons you can carry today, without any kind of permit. The only I've seen that have it as a basic weapon, though, are Bujinkan and Hoshinroshiryu, which Dr. Glenn Morris uses as kind of an American counterpart to Bujinkan. Which reminds me, I didn't get any opinions on my earlier questions about hoshinroshiryu, so I'll ask again here, now that the thread's been brought back to life.
I don't know much about hoshinroshiryu other than what I have seen on the web site. I do know that there are a few good Bujinkan instructors right here in Md. Which reminds me, when I can go back to class, I'm going to ask about kusari.
It moved from Japan to Singapore when america took "control" of japan after WW2 and dispanded all the martial arts and Samurai class. Rather than see the art broken down into sports (like judo, karate, etc) the grandmaster moved to singapore and became the hand to hand combat instructor for the army. Eventually a dojo formed in singapore and one reformed in japan. About 15 or so years ago Shihan John Ang moved to Perth and began teaching here. I'm not sure if there are any "sacred scrolls" or anything. The art does not claim to BE the real ninja clans just tries to follow the guidelines, training methods and fighting techniques that can be worked out from studying ancient texts. We wait so long to start teaching weapons to make sure the students have a good base to use the weapons from. It makes it much easier to begin thinking with the weapon if you are sure of all your footwork and its second nature instinct. Its like trying to show people how to do arm raise throws, elbow throws and stomache throws to people who don't really understand the basic hip throw or momentum throw. They don't forbid you from experimenting above your level - they just don't teach it. You can learn much of it from watching the higher belts train anyway. When can you do Taijutsu? I'd say after you understand your body's movements and are able to explain them in detail and are then able to extrapolate ideas for subjects you haven't heard of yet. I'm really looking forward to learning the manriki-Gusari and the Sai - I have been watching my instructor and his training partner doing thier Jo kumite and Sai kumite (it looks almost like they are fighting). Also another aspect of the weaponary (particularly the Katana) is the medative side. The higher levels of the sword require you to go from completely ying frame of being to completely yang. It looks like an explosion from a meditation to attacking a group of 20 people - very cool.
Thank you Darzeka. I understand the thinking about waiting until the student is a bit more experienced before teaching weapons, although the way I have been taught has been just as effective. To each his own I suppose. I wasn't asking about "sacred scrolls'. Just as to which ryu the art comes from. As you may know, the Bujinkan is made up of 9 diffferent schools of budo. As to whether ninjukai is a real ninja art, it's not for me to say. I leave that kind of discussion to historians, I'm more interested in 1) the heart of the practioner 2)effectiveness of the methods in a combat situation.
Also another point as to it being a "real ninja art" is what definition of ninja you use. The word Ninja means - one who practises harmony which is what I train to do and what you should be doing by training ninjukai. You can also look at ninja as the assasin who crawls around at night, killing people. This comes with the whole stealth training that the second era of ninjas learned. This is still trying to be in harmony with the environment but with a different emphasis. It works and its fun. What more do you need. I also found the historical facts about the founding of Ninjuaki. I did make a couple of mistakes - my bad. "In 1924 Jushin Oshima established the school that came to be known as Ninjukai Taijutsu. He wanted his school to study as closely as possible the way of the Ninjas as practiced in the 8th - 12th Century. Jushin Oshima was a naval captain in the Japanese Imperial Army, and it was his devotion and research that ensured the survival of the art in its present form. Oshima coined the word 'Ninjukai', which alludes to the broader world, or path, of the classical Ninja warrior, full of spiritual and martial values. With the close of the War in Asia in 1945, Ninjukai Taijutsu found itself based in Malaysia, where it had earlier been adopted by the occupying Imperial Forces. This was a blessing, as the art was sheltered from the social conditioning and cultural sterilization that was occurring in Japan under American occupation. All martial styles in Japan succumbed to this American influence (as can be seen by the introduction of katas and competitions in martial arts). In this respect, Ninjukai Taijutsu was left untouched. This is where a retired Imperial Sergeant, Major Akito Yashida (an 8th Dan Grandmaster), took over and trained, and in 1977 passed the Grandmastership to his student, John Ang (now 6th Dan). In 1987, Shihan John Ang moved to Perth and established the Australian headquarters for the Art of Ninjukai Taijutsu, the first dojo for this art to exist outside of Japan and South East Asia. " - taken from the Ninjukai Taijutsu webpage.
I've met him a few times but he doesn't come to our dojo much - he's phasing himself out of the association to concentrate on his life and personal training. The few times I've seen him were at my gradings and a few camps and events I went to. He seems a pretty nice person and extremely intelligent. He does tend to be a bit too calm and flowing - he follows the Tao - and can take a long time to compose his thought but his insights are quite true on most things. I've been training with one of his students - a second Dan who is trying to get our dojo running properly - and he scares me with his ability. He intern gets worked by the higher Dans who wouldn't even touch the Shihan which leads me to believe an evil look from him would nock me out. Seeing as how the Shihan doesn't train much in front of everyone a student decided to "test" him. The red belt jumped the counter at the Shihan and attacked him. Apparantly the shihan just grabbed him and looked at him and the guy didn't come back. When I get to Purple belt and above my classes will be run Mr. Ang and he also takes the meditation classes required from Blue belt. So unless he comes to the dojo to start teaching I will have to wait about a year to really train with him.
Okay, two questions here. One, how many of you actually believe that even a handful of the ninja's missions were purely assassinations? I'm sure not many, but there are those who believe that the ninja were all about crawling around in the dark wearing black. But as so few know, ninja did not historically wear black anywhere. It stands out like a black blob at night. Two, didn't the term "Shihan" arise within the Bujinkan to describe its higher level instructors? If so, why then do other arts use such terminology and is this not an indicator that the art is simply pulling things from other true ninjutsu schools to build itself up with an "authentic" image? Just a few questions zipping through my mind.
Shihan is a widely used term in both martial arts and education. You are thinking of "shidoshi" which was coined by Hatsumi Soke.
That's exactly what my mistake was. I figured that if it was not the term "shihan," then it was the term "shidoshi" that Soke Hatsumi had coined. I apologize for my mistake. Have a good one, all, and thanks for the correction Jason.
