New youtube video about chain punching

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by martialartistsifu, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. martialartistsifu

    martialartistsifu New Member

    :) i found this new youtube video about chain punching! What are your thoughts? Well explained, in a different way!

     
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  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Good video, well edited.

    Chain punching is crap and it doesn't work.
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Was it just me, or did anyone else think that he did a good job of explaining why chain punching isn't very useful? He glossed over how you can get power without turning your body too.

    Shame Hannibal and Simon aren't around to argue about the straight blast.
     
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  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I thought part of "chain punching" was occupying the centre line? If you're just gonna do it from a boxing guard is it still chain punching?
    Does chain punching now just mean "punching with each hand one after the other"?
     
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  5. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Since it was just uploaded yesterday and you're a new member, are you sure you're not the maker of the video looking for views rather than having "found" it?

    Also analysis:

    The punching is too low as is the guard. It will occupy centre-line but doesn't occupy the line to the head which is the primary target in striking, and it means that if you're punching straight you're attacking the sternum, not the face. This is a carry over from using the wu dip do where the hands being at the lower height mean the blades cover the chest and neck.

    Chain punching isn't a "technique," it's just following up a strike with more strikes, something which should be done only once you've created an opening, which is why, as the man pointed out, you don't use multiple strikes on the centre-line as a technique in closing distance.

    Chain punching can come in on an angle from the outside using the angle of the cut back to center from the mun sao in biu jee. The chain punch should also be driven from the heels, up through the hips, into the arm, which means the body turns. It's the adding of the mechanics from the jin choi and the "pool cue-ing" thrust in the luk dim boon gwan. If you don't use that kinetic chain to drive the punches you have very little power because you're only doing arm punches.


    Because it's not a "technique" really. It's just hitting repeatedly, like a 1-2 1-2, and should only be used when it tactically makes sense.

    He did a good job showing the big problem with a lot of chunners mechanics who have had poor or incomplete instruction, and who don't understand the vestigial hold-overs from the weapons into the empty handed techniques. He did a good job convincing me he's never really tried to use wing chun to fight anyone who can fight half decently.

    "Chain punching" is just hitting repeatedly. You don't have to just punch either. It can mix in palm strikes, fak sao, a neck grab, etc. So called "chain punching" is just a mechanic for training people on how to occupy center and do follow-up strikes down the centre-line. It's more of a training tool and less of a thing you directly replicate in application. And yeah, you can strike repeatedly from a boxing guard occupying the centre-line. You can do chain punches which cut in on an angle for recovery purposes or if you need to get the opponent's arm off-line. You can be much more flexible with how you strike in wing chun than most chunners think because they get taught basic drills, little else, and think that's how you fight.
     
  6. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    Just curious, is chain punching the same concept as a straight blast in JKD? Around ;40 sec here
     
    David Harrison likes this.
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That video says it is for law enforcement, but I can't imagine phone footage of an officer doing that to someone in the street going down well.
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I hate it when there's that "claim"

    Unless it is disclosed that a certain Police Department has actually paid for and hosted a seminar / included that martial art school as part of their curriculum, then really its "a student happens to be a copper". Rather than "We train cops"
     
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  9. Travess

    Travess The Welsh MAPper Supporter

    Isn't that Sifu Singh, Hannibals Sifu, doing the striking in that video?

    Just curious.

    Travess
     
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yep.
     
    icefield likes this.
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Can't wait for the clip of vitor belfort to be posted as prove Chaim punching works :)
     
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    If it's not done like that it shouldn't be taught like that. Same goes for Shotokan folk that punch from the waist and chamber it back there every time. If that's not how you fight, that's not what you should teach.
     
    Monkey_Magic likes this.
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Got to love running in the with punches and your chin up being taught to law enforcement as a good tactic
     
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  14. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    The problem is no one can agree what this technique is used for, teaching occupying the centre, hit and clearing, teaching proper mechanics etc, about all the wing chun guys normally agree on is everyone else's interpretation is incorrect lol
     
  15. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    This is the thing though, it's kind of all of the above. It's used to teach the concept of the "replacing hand." It's used to tech mechanics which can be used for repeated strikes and repeated strikes while controlling limbs, but it's not really a "technique" any more than hitting repeatedly is a "technique" in boxing. The problem is that people look at the initial training tool and think they can use it from outside contact distance to close distance and smash into the opponent like blind firing a rifle on full-auto. That's a poor tactical choice. I just don't think most wing chun folks have a good idea how to close with the opponent initially or work in from the outside offensively because so often techniques are taught as counters, and I've seen very few schools teach any real offensive striking beyond this idea of just trying to blindly bash your way into contact.

    Well it is and it isn't. The body mechanics are used that way in certain techniques, and you can actually use those exact mechanics for repeated strikes when you've created an appropriate opening. Repeated straight strikes shouldn't be taught as blind-fire though. It needs to be made clear that it's a component mechanic and not a thing you should be doing all the time. The problem is it's one of those things people learn early and then end up doing in pak sao and lap sao training so their partner has something to work from.

    Let's take a pretty good analogue in blade drills and make it a thought experiment. Imagine teaching people a line one and follow up line two strike, basic downward X pattern cutting. Then you use that as a base for training some defensive movements. There is more advanced and flexible striking, but people learn the line 1/2 strike early, use it in drills often and there are places where it would make sense to do a line one and then a line two cut, but then they think it's somehow a great idea to just always rush in cutting 1-2 repeatedly because the other cutting techniques are more advanced and harder to do, and not everyone gets taught them and only a few people kit up to spar and actually realize just rushing people like that is dumb.

    That's effectively what happens. Well that and a lot of people not really being taught any other tools to close distance.
     
  16. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    1-2 with the sticks is mechanically sound though. My instructor told me a story about an ex Muay Thai fighter who only learned the first few strikes of kali and one a few higher level tournaments with it.

    Chain punching as it's taught is faulty from the get-go.
     
  17. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Right but this is the thing, the mechanics of the strike are mechanically sound. Using it to blind-fire in lieu of appropriate targeting and controlling the opponent is tactical ineptitude, not mechanical error. The problem is that people have slapped a moniker on the idea allowing it to propagate as though it were a technique. The "as it's taught" is a problem of people not advancing beyond basic drills into more advanced drills. Initially you work off of your opponent punching repeatedly and you doing things like basic pak sao and lap sao, because you have to learn timing, but once you have the basic timing down you move on to more complex drills. Otherwise it's like practicing a parry from a jab over and over and the you think you can just jab your opponent to death, but you've only been doing that for training purposes.

    You can even refer back to the kuen kuit on this. "Strike when you should, do not strike when you should not." Should you strike when you can't hit anything? No. Just like it wouldn't make sense to jab while too far to hit. Should you be trying to bash through the opponent's defences? No. Remove the obstruction or change angle go around it.
     
  18. Nojon

    Nojon Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein

    LOL I forgot that this was Hannibals' teacher. Ive just watched it multiple times, and admired it. reminds me of PFS vids when Paul still had the mullett. lol
    This is still great material.
     
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  19. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I don't know any Jeet Kune Do, but that short boxing clip of Manny Pacquiao vs Yuriorkis Gamboa at 5:30 was unexpected. Was he making the argument that was chain punching? I mean, yeah it's a chain of punches at close range without a lot of footwork or movement. I don't know what else to say.

    Will a volley of punches in rapid succession work on somebody else? Sure. In fact, that's the best way to KO someone, keep punching until they are out while their guard is vulnerable. You're not going to win solely on defense in boxing unless you're Money Mayweather. You will win in boxing if your "Chain punches" whatever they look like begin and end at precisely the right moment and involve your fist going into your opponents head or body.

    Whether or not the fist should be rotated like in that video though, I'm not so sure. Seems like a hand injury waiting to happen, going straight in. Can't remember a fight won by a jab. A lot of the best flurries are combinations at angles, like that clip of Manny Pacquiao vs Yuriorkis Gamboa, funny enough.

    Anyways, interesting stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  20. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    In MMA, Georges St. Pierre vs Koscheck 2. GSP broke Koscheck's orbital bone with a jab. Amazingly enough, the fight wasn't called off by the ref's and GSP jabbed him throughout. Koscheck was never the same fighter after that fight. Every time another fighter got close to his face, you could see it psyched him out. The jab broke Koscheck's will and his career.

    This breakdown pretty much fits my take on that fight.

    5 Most career-damaging fights in UFC history
     
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