New Taijin Class

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by belltoller, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Very true.
  2. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

  3. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I was talking with my wife this evening regarding our tai chi class ( I had to miss Sat's due to an obligation ) and she informed me that in order for TC to "do any good", one must practice it for at least an hour a day and that it required two-hours/day in order to achieve maximum results - of course, as in any endeavour, the more time spent reaps the greater reward.

    If you ( experienced TC practitioners ) had to choose one style/family to begin a neophyte with, which would it be?

    Just curious.
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Are you getting to choose between the three styles he gave a sample of? Is this why you are asking?

    If so, just read up on the three styles to understand the differences between them, watch them a bit more, talk to your Sifu, etc. to decide which one is right for you. They are all good styles, it is - like all other MA's - about finding the best fit for you.

    I only do Yang Style and I love it. I find Chen style something that greatly interests me. If I had time to study another style and had started younger, I would pursue Chen. I hear Chen can be hard on the knees, which is why I say if I had started MA at a younger age. Although some members on other forums said this isn't true, so I don't know. (Xue here may have been one of them.) I haven't delved into it further as there is enough in Yang and my CLF to keep me busy for a lifetime.

    Personally, the whole circle walking thing in Bagua (which I am going to mention again is NOT TCC at all) is not something I am interested in studying at all. But I am sure it is a fine style for others.

    I hope this talk of an hour or two a day doesn't discourage you from pursuing TCC. I don't think one "must" practice an hour a day to "do any good." Of course, as you say, the more you practice anything, the greater the reward, but I think less time than this can still be very beneficial. And practicing less certainly reaps a greater reward than letting the hour or two a day mentioned stop you from doing it at all.

    From what you have described of your personal life, 7 to 14 hours a day isn't realistic. I say don't let that stop you from doing TCC (or Bagua if that is what you end up doing.)
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  5. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    No - I'm finding that I'm putting up this mental wall between what I'm doing in class and my interest in Tai Chi, itself.

    I don't learn well in the smorgasbord, piecemeal style that the TC is being done in.

    Nothing wrong with that, at'tall - some thrive on that. Not I - save for a survey course in biochem I'd once at University - that was the lifelong sole exception that I recall, lol.

    I enjoy the class well enough but I'm going with the flow - focusing more on my mental state than body-placement mechanics but I also have the need to learn via first principles, understand its origins, - derive the coeff. via logic rather memorising a mnemonic - if that analogy makes any sense.

    So, yeah ... reading/studying a basic central style from its purist forms ... its not essential to the class but that's the approach I'm driven to - hence the mental "partition".

    As you've observed and has been mentioned by others - Chen is probably not his "first language" - if you follow... so I'd like to have more of an in depth study of a style in which I have access to an instructor of reasonable competence - and bagua ain't our cup o tea, no its not. Not something I'd go out of my way to learn if I warn't having a class in it.

    So that leaves Yang - if I can get over the idea of in-fighting amongst the "family" that holds the 'rights-to-licensure' and not really certain with brand of Yang is the correct one, lol. < --- half joking, of course

    Well, her being from the PRC, herself - that's typical of how they go about things in general - even cooking. There's no such thing as a 'quick 'n dirty' meal - its all about putting time into its preparation or else it's ... rubbish.

    No surprise there. I could squeeze close to an hour a day once I'm satisfied that whatever it is I'm devoting my time to doesn't deviate too wildly from those first principles that I'd mentioned earlier
  6. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Tie chi is like its other kung fu cousins. The style is not as important as the teacher the club and how well you get on with it. There will always be differences in opinion in how to do things and within and between different organisations and styles.

    Regarding which one to chose. As far as application goes their is nothing to split them. The other thing I always consider is "if I am going to move to another part of the country at a later date can I still find a teacher? An emphatic yes for both of them.

    The whole have to train an hour a day thing. Many traditional Chinese arts require a commitment to practicing but this is not necessary at the start. The odd 5 minutes here and there practicing stances and movements with one 45 min practice session a week is fine to get you going. What should happen is that over time you begin to get more out of the art and actually want to spend more time Practicing. You might find that you go from 1 practice session a week to 2 to 3 and so on.

    Its all about the benefit you get from doing the practice. 45 minutes of dynamic yoga in the morning is a great way to start the day. 45 minutes at lunch to reset the brain for the afternoons work. Or when you get home in the evening to switch out of work mode (better than vegging in front of the Tv.)
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    There are two meanings to the word practice. One is training for a thing in the future, the other is to actually do the thing.

    When you practice any kung fu / tie chi you are doing dynamic yoga. So it's not about training every day to prepare for the future. It's about doing it every day because it is an activity you enjoy.
  8. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I get what you mean about not being keen on the 'smorgasbord' approach. Personally I would much prefer to simply concentrate on one style - especially as a beginner.

    But with regard to which style, I don't have a dogmatic view. I'm a Wu man myself, and have never done Yang or Chen, so I don't have an argument to make for one against t'other. So long as you can find a good teacher then to me the style is of secondary importance. What you want is good Taiji, rather than poor Taiji but in the 'right' style, if you see what I mean.
  9. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Well...I finally got 'round to practising our lessons on my own, going over the ... ahem ... tai chi form bits while a had things here to myself - really for the first time since I started.

    Then I had a sit-down with some of the recommended videos of the proper styles and ... then I practised my tai chi forms again and then I ... looked at the Yang and the Chen and even the Bagua demonstrations again and ...


    You've all been too-kind in your assessments of things, lol.

    Most definitely so :)
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  10. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    So, what is your conclusion?
  11. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Just for any neophyte readers out there who might get the wrong idea,this really is not a frequent approach at all,altho' one sees this claim often in various works in print over the years.The number of people who actually do/did things in this order,now or in the past,is miniscule.The idea may stem from the fact that some Hsing I and Pa Kua practitioners learned TC at some point (sometimes YEARS) after learning HI or PK.It's also tied up with a ridiculous supposed symbolism pertaining to the systems.I have yet to ever read/hear any of the "known" TC guys,even those who did the other systems,espouse this.

    It's not an unknown opinion that in terms of training the form to get beyond basic benefits (healthwise) one should practice 1 hour or more at a time. Wonder if Harvey Kurland ever looked into this aspect?

    Well,maybe not.The "Chen" unknown item. His Yang doesn't look off the wall.
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    "El", What shall one look for in a teacher of HI/PK?
  13. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    "... (better than vegging in front of the Tv.)" -- see below

    Harvey Kurland ?

    I suppose, to an experienced practitioner, it far easier to see the pattern of a familiar forest - even if a logger has taken axe and saw to a few of the trees within - than someone who isn't familiar with the terrain at all. Familiarity helps to mentally fill in the missing gaps and you are still able to make out the geography.

    For myself, I'm still trying to pick out a pattern - any pattern - from what seems to be random groupings of trees and a few missing here, a few unexpected ones there - doesn't exactly clarify things.

    Hope my analogy is not hard to follow.

    I'm not going to worry about it. I'll go to the class and attempt to understand what the instructor is trying to do within the context of that class.

    I believe I will derive some benefit by doing this. The classes are only 6 weeks long, in any respects.


    I've learned that in order to be able to go in and get anything out of what is being taught, I really have to drop any a priori assumptions about what I think should be going on because at some point, some thing will invariably change and dealing with that while trying to learn something new is far more problematic than going in with a 'blank slate' to begin with ... so to speak.

    I've determined the best way is to be personally grateful for having the class available - I live less than fourty miles from "Deliverance" country - 10 or 15 years ago, any sort of MA school in this area would've been unheard of and you'd not been able to find too many brave enough to want to venture to this neck of the woods to open a school up, if they weren't born here.

    Unless one is from a background that has allowed them to see cultural isolation up close and personal, the idea that one should be happy to have any sort of MA teaching probably wouldn't be easily grasped.

    Of course, - and you all already have known this - if I'm serious about TCC in any way, I will have to explore other situations.

    Hence the mental-partition that I spoke of in an earlier post.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  14. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside


    When I first started taijiquan with my first sifu I got to a point where I thought I figured it all out, especially the application of it.... this of course was based on my Jujutsu background. Then I went to train with my second Taijiquan sifu and realized, much to my surprise, I was completely clueless and had no idea what was going on, especially the application of it. And that using my prior background was blocking my understanding of what was really going on.
  15. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    My teacher was originally a tie chi practitioner. His tie chi teacher recommend he study kungfu (including an art similar to xing-e) and baqua in addition to his tie chi.
    There is also a guy from an unrelated background not three miles from me who teaches xing-e, bagua and tie chi. So In my personal experience it does happen - although maybe my personal experience is the exception not the rule. I have seen and read references that say that this approach is not considered abnormal. Although I concede that not abnormal and frequent are not necessarily the same.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  16. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Its hard - i did jujitsu for a few years. I was careful to leave my ego and my kung fu outside the dojo and to practice jujitsu on the mat. But in hindsight despite my best efforts I only really learnt do do my own hybrid of jujit-fu.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  17. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    What is "tie chi"?

    Ju Jitsu is Gong Fu (Kung Fu), in a translated, non-misnomer sense
  18. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    A rose by another name :)
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Good, I can call you Jim Bayleaf :p

Share This Page