Hello! I just stumbled onto this site, and I am incredibly impressed! You are just the people I need to listen to! First, the background: I am 26, a high school science teacher, and a former student of Shorin-Ryu Okinawan Karate. It has been 4 years since my last training (six years of work total). I was recently approached by a student who is interested in starting a martial arts club (education and appreciation, not training) through the school. It seems they need an advisor. I jumped at the chance, and am on the road back into something I loved but had left behind. Now, the quandry: This student studies Wing Chung (sp?) with a person who teaches in a public park in town. He has been doing this for two years, and is not the only student. My question, as someone who has long considered studying kung fu, how can I tell if this instructor is qualified and legitimately trained or if they are some schmo who has rented a bunch of "kung fu for dummies" videos? I mean no disrespect to the instructor, but since he teaches in a park, it is tough to pin down credentials! Thanks for your help, and I truly admire the work you are all doing. I will refer my students to this site happily! Sincerely, BF
Hi Brainfodder, Welcome to the forum. We have some other Okinawan Karate enthusiasts here, so mingle, mingle Wing Chun has it's politics, but the very fact that someone is teaching in the park suggests an absence of material goals thru teaching for one thing, though as you imply, it may simply be someone with a passing acquiantance to the system who is a student themselves. As a traditional style Wing Chun has no belt or rank system as such. Ability is measured on just that! Ability. As a teacher yourself, you well know, that possessing knowledge does not make someone a teacher. Some questions your student might ask though are as follows; 1/ What lineage of Wing Chun are you training? (Yip Man's lineage is the most commonly quoted, but there are at least 7 others) 2/ How many Wing Chun forms do you know? (Most styles acknowledge three core forms, though some include six and a half point pole, butterfly knives and Mook Jong or Wooden Dummy) 3/ Where does your knowledge come from? (This art least could be verified.) 'Wing Chun' is the common spelling, though you will find some schools using 'Ving Tsun', or 'Wing Chun Kuen'. There is also 'Wing Chun Do', but I am a little wary of this branch, as I've heard little good about it. If your student has access to the net, get him on here, and we'll happily have a chat with him/her. Regards Andy
BF, I'd also go also to the class yourself (if you're interested and/or have time) and see how things run. You can usually see if someone knows their stuff or not. Keep us posted. Jim
just because a teacher teaches ma in a park, does not mean he/she is not qualified. I have seen or heard of many TOP masters who does not want to teach at a formal school. They rather go to a park and get 1 or 2 students. Many of these masters choose their students carefully, and they pride on the quality of their students. In china, there are many masters who teach kung fu, taiji, bagua, even San Da in parks. Its probably the only way (besides now schools and athletic halls) for them to teach. My taiji sifu is a second generation student of Chen Man Ching. She does not teach formally. I think in total, she only have about 5 or 6 students, and we all train on alternate days in her front yard. The only reason why she doesnt go to the par to teach, is because of the crime rate in my good old city. Real kung fu is not about the c lothes, weapons or training hall, its about what you learn.
hmm u stole the words from my mouth eddie.... cool... i learn TKD n Tai Chi in park... does that means that i m learning is not legit?? go figure... seriously... u shouldn't jump to conclusion fast... anyways welcome here.. -TkdWarrior-
Hi Brain Fodder, before you start to feel like some people are jumping down your throat for sugesting he could be less than legit, I think you're absolutely dead on to do so. I think all MA teachers should be upfront about their credentials. You get too many people who while properly trained in an art, go to a seminar on "whatever" and next week they're proclaiming to be an expert on the same thing. Others as you pointed out buy the vidoe and all of a sudden they're personal students of whoever!!! Why not ask your student to ask the instructor their lineage? If they dont say it's not proof they're a fraud, but I would be suspicious and do some more checking. Aside from that I endorse (for what it's worth!!) what Andy said earlier Welcome btw
Good lineage, number forms know or amounts of things learnt don’t always make a good martial artist, but as you say it should give you a good guideline. My point is, asking questions will only let you find out so much. I feel like I can learn more about a person after a few training sessions than asking questions. Maybe this is no good to avoid a bad club in the first place but it seems the person you know is training there already. Training in a park doesn’t mean the teacher is any less good, could just mean the teacher doesn’t want the hassle of running a training hall. A more important question to ask is what insurance does the club have. Obviously without it you can’t claim if you get hurt, but maybe more importantly, its there in case someone tries to sue you for injuries they’ve received. If a club doesn’t have insurance it could be because the insurance companies see it as too great a risk. Which could be for good reason!
yeah I know lineage is important, but its more important to find a teacher with experience, and who has real kung lek (kung fu power). It also help if your sifu is patient, and a good teacher. You must feel confident in him/her. I personally know one guy who has a pure shaolin lohan lineage, he grew up in china and spend his whole life from the age of 5 untill about age 20 at one of china's top kung fu schools. His also an all round champion in traditional and contemporory wushu, and his list of instructors would make anyone turn green with envy. He has all of that, but in all respect, his students still su@k. His not a good instructor, but he is a good player. there are also some masters who learned their skills from very legit masters, but still they dont like to disclose this info. Chinese people by nature, seem to be very suspicious. There are many reasons for this. I also think its disrespectful to ask a sifu from the very first day about his lineage. First give him a fair chance, and then just take it with the flow. sorry bout my bad english and spelling, im way to bussy today
Thanks everyone for the advice. I certainly agree, the site of learning doesn't give any insight to the teacher (we've all seen fancy buildings filled with shady people). But in the US, a building site means a license so that I can check with the better business bureau for fraud charges, etc. Likewise, it means I can train throughout the year, not just in the summer. For Kansas winters are crappy at best! Thanks so much for the advice. I will take it all to heart. I truly hope this sifu is legit, as I am eager to find a martial art to delve into. Kung fu seems perfect, especially softer styles.
With a shameless self-plug here, some points of this article I wrote for the site apply here BrainFodder, so pass these on if you feel them relevant; Article. Andy
Can i just point out that everyone keeps describing this training in the park as a club. Is it? Groups of Tai Chi practitioners tend to congregate in parks (undoubtly for no good reason ), in a loose knit fashion, where everyone takes their lead off of the most knowledgable person their. This isn't a club. It could be the same with your Wing Chun guy. Col
Brainfodder, what you ask is not easily answered. no offense, AndyM but those things are easily learned buy just a little research. It is very easy to talk a good game on wingchun because it is a simple art, the concepts themselves are not so difficult to comprehend. The proof is in the ability to use them effectively. Like some people have said, forget about where he teaches, learn something about what he teaches. If it is a true concern of yours, visit some other wingchun schools where the instructors have some proveable background and talk to them, take a class or two then check his class out. Unfotunately, there are many people out there teaching many arts that shouldnt be, and it is hard and takes some work to discern the real imposters. He may not even realize he is doing more harm then good. Ah, Shorin Ryu an oldy but a goody, I trained for two years in a good school for shorin ryu......
Ok, I'm kind of late..... I'm welcoming you anyway Hope you're enjoying the forums. If anyone here gives you anytrouble, just let me know:woo:
None taken Red 5, as the Article I linked was written for people who hadn't done any research at all, hence the title. Andy
the article was good Andy, I was refering to the asking of questions. As you probably know by now, there are some who can talk a good game but cant walk it.
