Like I said before - I'd be interested to know how long you've practised nei gong for and what, if any, benefits you found you gained from it? Also an insight into the nature of your nei gong practise would be good, although I appreciate that some people cannot or don't want to share that on a public forum...
I am not talking about how they use their bodies, I am talking about how they move there bodies (or indeed not move) being the same as how a tai chi guy moves. JJ guy throws a punch: nerves fire, muscles contract, ligaments tighten. Same as a TTC guy throwing a punch. The order of the muscles contracting and nerves firing may or may-not be slightly different, but fundamentally its the same.
Then you must also ridicule those who believe in Christianity, Hinduism, Islam etc etc. These belief systems are all based around rather fantastic claims. If you think Taiji is just another form of fighting, then you are missing out on a great deal. And, I have a little experience in Taiji. I've been practicing for a little over a year now. I used to think the same as you do now. Now I don't. Why not? Simply because I have felt Qi, both inside myself, and from a training partner in one instance. You dont believe it? I'm not gonna loose any sleep over your ignorance
How long...about 14-15 years (give or take) Benefits...strength, stamina, fortitude, general health all the normal stuff you would expect. Perhaps the two main benefits that you get are ging (jing, jin, etc) and core strength. Nature of our nei gong. With out going into to much detail, they are split about 50/50 between static postures and repetitive movements. The static postures are set to train a certain attribute, for example, a posture could be designed to require the diaphragm to work harder, thus aiding breathing in general etc. The moving sets tend to be about (but not exclusively) developing ging for generic techniques Perhaps the most surprising factor of the nei gung is hopw fast it improves your ability. It is common to be able to detect the change in a partner on the mat (grappling) that you have been training with for a few years, once they have been doing the nei gung for a couple of weeks (remembering that at the start this is only, probably about 15 mins a day to start with
Hilarious. All these Tai chi people arguing amongst themselves. At least you never have to worry about anyone mistaking this for anything other than a CMA forum.
I have to say that I used the same argument in reverse with my friend during a discussion of Qi/Chi/Ki the other day, if you believe in Qi/Chi/Ki as a mystical force type concept, then you have to believe in fairies, allah, pixies, leprachauns and all... If you dont think that Taijiquan is another form of fighting then you are seriously missing the boat... I also have little exp in Taijiquan, just over a year, and I dont think the same way either, that is I dont think that Taijiquan is for those who wish to wave their arms about and smell incense, (which is what kept me away from Taijiquan for so long). I have felt "Qi" from my teacher but have realised that it is just is biomechanics are better than mine (working on that) and that he can control his breath much better, along with his body... its still not magical and no matter how star wars fans may wish it the force isnt real either... unless of course you would like to say that bad humours (or vapours) gave my son chicken pox...
A friend and I are trying to organize a "throwdown" in Oxford over on bullshido. Your not that far away, why do you not come and show me some real Qi. I can honestly say that if you can I will eat my words. Please don’t interpret this as a challenge or a threat, I mean nothing aggressive by inviting you and would be genuinely interested in what you could show. If you feel that with only one year of training you can’t show anything, then feel free to bring someone who can.
Would like to but time is worth more than life at this point... who thought Uni would be soooo much work, I thought students just went out and partied...!!!
First we have magic martial arts now busy students! Are we going to have a yeti post here next? :Alien:
Energy Boy? No problem with that here...I'm not the one who's insecure tho... Brido - you know I think you're cool and I am not slagging you or your system although I may have a different point of view on some subjects and definitely on attitudes between schools and MAists lol... Liokault (& possibly others) First off - I don't think you even know what qi is supposed to be, let alone what it 'actually' (poor word imo but can't come up with another at this point) is. Which is why I am guessing you are so stuck on refuting its existence. I am sorry you have come to some misconception based on the charlatanry and distortions found on the web. More fool you if you have tho lol You keep talking about 'proof' and 'demonstration' as if it was a material thing. 'Material power' is Li, I thought experts like you would have known that. Yi leads Qi leads Li - that has always been the aim of tjq whatever your modern approaches may assert lol 'Qi' is like 'Tao' - it cannot be accurately described, only worked around or directly experienced. (I mention Tao btw, because Taiji is linked strongly to Taoism, again whether you like it or not . It's central strategies correspond with Tao ideas and Yin/yang theory (Tai Chi/Taiji) hence 'Tai Chi Chuan' durr lol A good translation of Taijiquan imo would be 'Yin Yang Boxing Technique'. ) I do not view the Tao as a religion like Buddhism btw. I have no time or interest in the 'Taoist religion' only in the core ideas of Lao Tzu as they apply to Taiji. Yin & Yang theory (Tai Chi) predates Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism, but is used by all three as a cosmological principle. Taoism uses it more than the other two and is more simplistic (in its non-religious form.) I have been a Nichiren Buddhist for 18 years - that is my 'religion', Tjq is my martial art. Why do you have such a problem with that? If I did Karate and was a hindu, would the core philosophy of that MA instigate an existential crisis? I-don't-fink-sooooo lol Again, Yin and Yang are not demonstrable energies imo, they are qualities and/or temporary behaviours that change constantly and always balance each other. E.g. If I extend a punch forward (yang) its power will run out at some point - either when the strike lands or by missing/overextension - and it then becomes empty (yin). Understanding this helps you apply correct (imo lol) Taiji techniques in combat rather than externalised techniques based on a Taiji form. (Hard and Soft approaches are both part of Tjq imo but you should not favour one and dismiss the other imo they are yin and yang and fundamental to correct mastery if you are doing Tjq as MA ime) The truly ironic aspect is that some of you have mentioned jing development lol Jing means 'internal power' or 'intrinsic energy' and is fuelled by your qi development. If you are doing neigong you are already developing qi whether you are aware of it or not. Qi means many things and again it is an aspect rather than a 'thing' in itself. All that lives has qi, all that does not - does not! A Taoist might say qi is life perhaps. Perhaps he would just laugh inwardly and bow to you. I wonder if you are aware that to do peng, lu, jie or ahn (jins) at all requires qi as their power and both require yi as the original motivation? Physics responds to this development and is both demonstrable and 'provable' - hence it is Li (The eventual aim btw is to unify these aspects (Taiji) then dissolve them completely into enlightenment... wuji/Dao...) These aspects are only divided as theory and for study/development - in good practice they become one. Qi is not intended as a separate or magical energy. Qi is not intended at all (until yi becomes involved lol ). Qi just is. Science cannot explain why things live, or what happens when we die - it can only study the symptoms of these things happening. Qi is seen perhaps as mystical as it is a non-scientific description of how things live and what they do when they die. Science cannot explain love or beauty, yet we feel them, do we not? I, and at least one of my students, (some of them post on MAP) actually find it almost impossible to understand how anyone can be practising tjq, neigong, qigong etc and have no awareness, understanding or 'belief' in qi. But I suppose this diversity is what makes the Tjq world interesting to me. I do wish you'd stop trying to bash it into one shape... Peace and a deep bow :Angel:
Ah, Butterfly, I see what your doing and it ties in with a theory of mine. See my theory goes: CMA'ists spout off about stuff at length. When they get to a point that they don't understand, they don't stop and say "I do not understand this as my grasp of anatomy and biology is poor", no, they just insert the word 'chi' and carry on!
Brido you'll have to excuse me, I didn't mean it to sound like that. liokault I liked your description of nei gung thanks. I share a similar experience. Nice idea for a day of fun.
I said earlier that I'd ask some questions and I have a few more seeing that someof the others have posted on here so I hope you don't mind me asking these for the moment lol. I'm a bit puzzled about this one but what has Alchemy got to do with internal martial arts or is it connected to the estoric side of the path ?. I'd also like to know what the 16 keys, 72 gates and the 16 part of the "Nei Gong" as I'm never been taught about this and it's a bit confusing for me even though I've given up right now. Please could you let me know a bit more about this one or even post a link to the information, I do still read a little about everything at the moment. I accept what you have to say about chi inthespirit so that isn't a problem lol, I'd just liketo know when your doing Nei Gong how do you find out if your doin the exercises in the correct way if you haven't felt any of the energy. I'd like to know as it might help me a bit with something I've been working on at home. I do have a question about the diaphragmatic breathing though as I had a op a few years ago and was told to do some reverse breathing to conserve what oxygen was going into my lungs as they was painful and I'd had my chest opened as well. If this exercise is supposed to open your lungs fully then why do hospitals encourage patients to use this to make it easier to breath even though they tell you it's not going open your lung fully, who is right in this one ?. What channels do you use within the system of Nei Gong as I'm interested to find out as I was taught how to do a type of meditation to cleanse the chakras and wondered if we use the same sort of visualisation. This is more of a personal question as I could do with a couple of ideas if you don't mind lol. right then lol, would the exercises be of use for someone who has a problem with Raynauds syndrome as it's a circulation problem which consists of some of the blood vessels closing and causes pain when they get warm again, you usually end up having you hands and legs going blue in cold weather. I was wondering if this kind of exercise would be useful for someone who has this kind of blockage as well as many others, I'm starting to deal with mine, what are you doing with yours ( before anyone starts saying something lol). I hope you are prepared to answer this lot as I haven't finished yet lol. thanks for writing this stuff. lisa xx
So that was the best you could do huh? Is that really the best you can do as a response? How disappointing (I'm not surprised tho lol ) I have studied anatomy and physiology (western style) and still do - the qi system works with it, is intertwined with it but is different also. Please don't project your fundamental ignorance and narrow prejudices onto me. Open your eyes :Angel:
Nei Gong is an integral part of hung gar. We spend a significant time doing breathing exercices and stances. Even our forms have breathing exercices. Sorry for shattering your view that only arts dubbed IMA practice with a focus on nei gong.
This is the most informative and interesting post you've ever made. We may not agree on all things taiji, but this is an excellent post. Well done.
So why should I believe in Qi/Chi/Ki as an esoteric force or mystical energy rather than readily explainable actions and the like? I mean I feel and see what you describe as Qi/Chi/Ki but instead of thinking of yoda and the force I see that my teacher has far better biomechanics and is far, far better at applying them and combining them with his breathing and movement etc than I... its not some universal energy its just that he has great structure and movement... something I aim for as well... funnily enough when I spoke to another very respected Taijiquan teacher he described it all in fairly biological and scientific terms... but anyway... why should I believe in the mystic energy and not view it as I do...???
I would be interested in the shape of your tai chi. How much is done against a resisting opponent? How often do you spar? In another thread, you mentioned that you have not had a fight since you were a teen....how do you feel that you can teach a martial art in a practical way with this being true? As a % how much of your training is form work? As a % how much is solo work (including nei gung if you like)? Do you or your students compete?
