Hey all, thought i would share some of these clips with you all. This is a Wudang priest that teaches in Colorado hope you all enjoy! http://wudangdao.com/
The rarely seen 7 star formation: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx7BBHpfYPg&mode=related&search="]Kung Fu Dragons of Wudang - Weapons - YouTube[/ame] though, there is not much here on it. In reality the formation and technique is much broader and explosive.
That was really poor! "His intense study has allowed him to recover techniques lost centuries ago" "This formation (seven stars) is said to be able to withstand 50 men" Come on people, Wudang is a tourist trap. There was no Wudang style on the mountain 20 years ago, infact I see no evidence that Wudang on the mountain is anything other than a recent invention to hook westerners. Its only value is as a performance art. And why was that "skilled master" using a floppy wushu jian?
Hear! Hear! I saw the National Geographic programme this is from. I was very unimpressed and apalled by the lack of morality of the so-called "masters" and by their exploitation and abuse of the young people under their care. Their stuff is a modern synthesis, which would be fine if they just admitted that that is what it was.
You're all right, just curious have any of you trained at/with teachers from Wudang? Or is your experience only what you have seen on tv?
The point is TQ that this style has no real historical authenticity, so it wouldn't have been possible to train in it until quite recently. The sword clip you posted (from the TV show, which you presumably liked enough to post a clip of) says that the "master's" sword skill is so great that he has been able to "revive long-lost sword techniques" which isn't impossible, but does cast some doubt over the source of the style. A lot of this kind of thing is happening - trying to revive old styles with romantic histories, based on modern styles, but it isn't really authentic. It would be better for them to say "this is our synthesis of the styles of Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua" rather than trying to claim lineage back to Zhang Sanfeng or other fictional or semi-fictional characters. Their martial arts might even be quite good for all I know, but I don't think stuff like making children train in graveyards at night is good for them. The "masters" do seem to quite shamelessly employ exploitative and even abusive methods with the children. The TV programme was very sad and one little girl did rather poignantly run away at the end to go back to her abusive home life rather than endure any more of the Wudang temple life. Anyway, that's my point of view. I hung back initially because I wanted to see whether or not anyone else would say anything. Hopefully the discussion can be based on issues rather than insults. I've said enough now, anyway.
The problem is that this is part of a Religion comparing historical facts with religion does not coincide. How much of any major religious texts do we know to be perfectly historically accurate? Some we have to take peoples words/ideals for, while others we may or may not take as historical fact. There are records of Wudang MA (including Zhang Sanfeng) in imperial records. Though as to what these people did/did not do we don't know. Also as for learning ancient sword techniques that were presumed lost, is a very Taoist thought. The idea is that if you truly practice any art (MA or otherwise) and put every fiber or your being into it, you will begin to learn from ancient masters. This is a common Taoist thought, seeking spiritual guidance etc. Again you have to realize the source it is coming from, is it true? Who knows, you cannot say with absolute certainty if this is part of religion or even a culture you cannot claim that it is false, just b/c of different belief. If this were true many religions/cultures would not have many traditions etc. today. As for the treatment of children, I cannot see the damage in having them practice in a graveyard (though I openly admit there is bias there). I imagine for some children it could be traumatic, yes I would admit that, however, some may want to train and actually enjoy it. We also cannot single out any temple for treatment of children for that is quite rampant in society as well any temple/religious life. I can even remember hearing stories of Sun Lu-tang having to run behind his master's horse while he was tied to it, to train his speed (this way mentioned as an authentic story told by Sun Lu-tang's daughter). Or what of Yang Chen-fu running away from learning his family's Tai Chi b/c of the severity of the training? I have even heard in Chen village that families can take training children to an extreme. This is no different than in the west how we may treat children when getting into various sports. We try to make them grow up too quick, though to single out Wudang as being at fault for this is narrow sighted. I still hear of some monks running away from Wudang and other temples even after spending years of their lives training. I never mentioned it was perfect, no place is, reality is b/c these arts are taken so seriously very few of us could maintain their training regimen. This is not hard to realize, just look how few train for elite armed forces, the harshness they go through could be easily labeled abusive. I did address the first point here, but as for the formation. This 5 second snippet hardly does a 10-15 min form justice. Come on can you truly make a judgement based upon that? As for the 50 men I agree this is probably exaggerated as all MAs tend to do. But even being realistic and saying it was able to fend off 14-20 (double their numbers) is impressive. How many here train to fight off and actually do fight off mulitple opponents? How many would honestly fight against double odds? Just because the number is exaggerated does not make it entirely false. Wudang mountain and temples themselves are not where tourists stay. Tourists actually stay down the mountain in a village set up for this specific purpose. Only priests/priestesses (last I knew) were allowed to stay near or in the actual temples. It is true Wudang "died down" in their arts for a some decades, lending itself to being occupied by non priests/priestesses. However, when this happened many priests/priestesses went elsewhere (Shaolin, or other Taoist temples) and many have just recently returned thanks to many of the temples being repaired and revitalized by the priests/priestesses that stayed. I don't disagree that to an extent is has been redone for tourists, but can you honestly tell me what major historical/holy sites have not been? As for the floppiness of the wushu jian I have heard that due to the fact that tourists and public are involved some weapons are not allowed to be sharpened/real etc. Though I admit I am unsure of this as fact, but it does make sense.
Sorry TQ, but most of your arguments revolve around pointing your finger elsewhere and saying "well they do it too!" The beauty of having a moral stance is that it liberates you from immorality. So for example, you could decide that even if your teachers were abusive, you would not be because it is Wrong. Even if your teachers exaggerated claims, you would not, because to do so is Wrong. Even if your teachers historical accounts were not accurate, you would ensure that yours were because misleading people is Wrong. I know this relates to our other discussion a bit too ("Concept of Evil" thread), but I think it is very relevant here.
I did not want to derail this thread so I posted here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66739&page=7&pp=15 I wanted to keep this thread open for the Wudang clips. Sorry for :topic:
