I've been practicing and thinking about Nak Bub quite a bit lately, in particular about getting up quickly and safely. When you guys practice, do you focus on getting up quickly? How about trying to avoid certain falls in techniques that leave you prone? That is, when the technique is being done to you. Of coarse the other guy is trying to get you in as bad of a position as possible. My most specific question is this. Say you have been forced to do a front fall, becuase you just couldn't roll out safely. What ways have you found that will get you into a better position quickly? Pick a technique and tell me what you do.
hmmm for front fall, I immediately push one arm forward and side-roll into a better position. I also sometimes just throw my body back up with my arms. for Back fall, I like rolling back then kicking straight up into a sort of back handspring. though I would practice doing kep-ups(sp?) as they sometimes make great attacks if your attacker is moving towards you, recklessly. From side fall you can go into that windmill, Ha Dol Ah Jok Sool(?) (the one that consist of front kick (from the ground), defensive outside, defensive inside, then hook kick to pull your body up) you can also turn this technique into another handspring-esque technique by twisting onto your shoulder as you inside kick then using that upward momentum you push off with your hands and land on your feet (I can't do this yet... but I've working on it since it was showed to meh ^_^; ) front-side fall is tricky... I don't have any great ideas on this one. Chances are you would only need this if someone was dropping you with a wrist or arm lock. (You would be held there) Hoe Jeon Nak Beop is the same as front-side, chances are you are only doing this fall if someone is throwing you into this position. I guess just do anything you can to avoid their follow-up? then get onto your feet or pull them into a ground hold.
JKN-Taylor, thanks for the response. Cool idea for the side fall. I must have seen it before because I can visual it pretty well. I'll have to give it a try. If I can't get up quickly because my partner is too close, I usually try to get to a typical ground defense position. It looks like the end of the side fall, but with your (left) forearm on the ground and (right) leg cocked like it is ready for a side kick. If someone throws me and I am not complying then I usually try to roll out of it somehow by launching myself harder than they have control for. So for instance on KBS #6 I try to roll out and turn and face my partner with him still holding onto my wrist. I think the idea of doing front fall (for self defense) in this situation is about as pleasant as french kissing a rattlesnake. Sure I save my face from splatting on the ground, but now I have someone right on top of me. The problem I would like to solve is what to do when someone gets me into that nasty situation. I am pretty good at not getting there, but I have taking some nasty falls trying to avoid the front fall. The only thing I've come up with is jerking like crazy to get my pinned arm so I can bend it, and rotate or flip my body around in some way to get a hand or foot on my opponent. And this is with him only doing the armlock! If he was beating on me at the same time or trying to move into even a nastier position, I'd be out of luck. The only luck I've had with front side fall is if my elbow is not pinned to my body then I can roll away pretty easily. If not, its back to the rattlesnake.
Yeah, that makes sense to me. In JMMKBS#6 the proper fall is HJ Nak Beop, but rolling into a better position from KBS#6 is only possible if the attacker performs a sloppy technique (keeping your arm away from his body). As the "precision" of the technique involves pulling the arm into your Ki area and dropping straight down, pinning the elbow with your knee, you would dislocate your shoulder if you tried to roll from it. If you ever manage to get thrown in a way that would force you into a static nak beop, I think the best thing to do is assess the situation as quickly as possible and then exploit any weakness your attacker has (is all of his balance on his knee/hand, holding your arm down?) (is there any way I can get this guy underneath me?) I guess all my years of wrestling with three brothers, has helped with my confidence, as I am pretty good with "desperation attacks" from the ground, and knowing how to fight dirty...lol It is a shame that I haven’t yet been introduced to KSW’s ground fighting. I'm sure a lot of that would be useful for anti-technique, follow-up, ect.
On a slightly different note. JKN-Taylor, you must have fallen at least once while you are doing all that full contact weapon work right? How far away have you found that you need to be to be able to safely do a kick up (kep-up, I'm not sure of the spelling either). If the other guy is standing still and then rushes toward you, I need at least six feet. That doesn't give me any error play though. If I screw up then he'll be right on top of me. I tested this with a foam blocker used as a weapon to attack me as I get up. Back rolling was only marginally better, I think the time to get up was the same, but you get about an extra step by rolling back. Another thing is floor scrambling. Has anyone played around with that? You don't get up (at least not all the way), just push or scoot yourself across the floor. I read in a book that it is great for self defense because you can quickly find a place with better cover before you get up. I've tried it a bit, it is amazing how much ground you can cover quickly. If you are good, you can scoot six feet without razing you head high enough to hit the bottom of a standard height table.
Yep, I'd say this is the safest way to get up, and of all the ones mentioned, the only one that won't get your face smashed in during a real fight.
First thing, if I end up on the ground (depending on how hard they had to hit me to get me there, or if I was just being clumsy) I’ll try to go into an instant up-cover. More often than not, I find that my partners like to try and get a good solid downward strike as I try to get back up. Though I have never been confident enough to try any fancy recovery tricks, kep-up, ect. I will sometimes backroll to my feet (in a squatting position) and cover again. This quickly gives me a better position to Just stand up without leaving me vulnerable for too long… Why not try gaining an advantage while on the ground?...Lunging for their legs works well, I once won a fight a long long time ago (against a school bully ... ) by grabbing near the guy’s ankles and pushing his knees in with my shoulder. I didn’t push hard enough to break his knees, but his back hit the sharp corner of a table. As he rolled around in pain, I stood up and gained the upper hand. There are also a set of KukSool takedown techniques that use ankle and knee points/locks to take someone who is standing over you while you are on the ground. They are very effective in training, I’m sure you could practice enough to make them effective in a live fight (as long as you took them down fast as to not leave your back and/or head exposed).
JKN-Taylor, good points. I personally don’t like rolling back, mainly because I can’t see behind me. But other people with a whole lot more experience than me advocate it in very dangerous situations. William Fairbanks in his book “Get Tough” uses the back roll as one of his two primary methods of getting up. The interesting thing is that he is coming from a world were the other guy is trying to kill him, not just hurt him. I wish there was more explanation in his book. His second method is something I just don’t get and that is to get up all fours from a front fall (feet and hands, not knees and hands). I suppose you could run like a gorilla while you are getting up. I have a hard time dismissing what this guy says because he used this stuff in wartime. In Marc Tedeschi’s book “The Art of Ground Fighting”, he presents a huge arsenal of ways to move around on the floor and ways to get up. He even shows you how to move with broken ankles. The problem I have in that book is that he doesn’t talk enough about when each of the methods are the most applicable and he doesn’t talk enough about the flaws of each method. Marc Macyoung in his book “Floor Fighting” doesn’t give nearly as many options but he clearly discusses when and how to use them. I was hoping that Royce Gracie would have some of this in his new book, which is awesome BTW, but I guess it will be in the second volume. He really knows how to move around on the floor, and I would love to read his thoughts on this. I have a few other books that talk about groundwork, and strategy involved but for some reason they didn’t think it was important enough to put getting up from the ground in there. I find that a bit weird. So far, my personal favorite is the floor scramble, followed by a pop up.
I've learned a pretty effective method of getting off the ground if you're on your back. Post on both hands and feet, similar to the position one takes in a crab walk. Kick with the foot furthest back, then swing that foot back behind you with out touching the ground until you're into a guarding stance. Trust me, it's tried and true.
