My Program: Please Critique

Since you have the time and are willing to devote that much to it then, I don't see too much of a problem with it. Just make sure you're getting adequate rest and avoiding 2+ hour long workouts.

Of course there may be many different ways of doing it, but they all fall back down to the foundation of weight training. Even something as "complex" as strength training still has basic principles. Hard work, compound exercises, progressive resistance, proper reps/sets for you that works, etc.

Think about the gains you've made already. Were they made with an overly complicated, systematic program or a simple one? If it's the former, then you'd be surprised how much the latter works as well. I highly recommend checking out http://www.brookskubik.com/ and his book "Dinosaur Training." He shows you how a "simple" routine can be incredibly result-producing. Just ignore the new bodyweight training kick he's on.

 

What we have here my friends is the perfect case of paralysis by analysis

 

So true.

Soc. Stop reading books. There is a point where you know too much, we all reach it, then its 10x harder to workout.

Dips
Pullups
Military Press
weighted crunches/sidebends
Bench
Dumbell Row
Squat
Deadlift

All done, adding weight progressivly, eating enough and sleeping. You'll pack on muscle and strength in no time.

 

I don't quite see where the paralysis is applicable here. I'm not paralyzed at all, I haven't stopped working out so I can sit in my room while my head swims with all the things I read about.

More like, motivation through information

I haven't reached that point yet I guess, cause I have no problem working out, and the things I learn only help me to attain my goals.

By the way, I'm pretty sure I already told you that I've been doing the program you mentioned, again, for the past 6 months straight. I know you're very well aware that you can't keep doing the same thing forever and expect to keep reaping rewards.

 

Socrastein - post a pic of your body

 

Unless you are lifting some very large weights, you have ALOT more to grow before you need to think about change.

 

Umm... awkward.

I'm not lifting tremendous weights. However, it's becoming harder for me to keep adding lbs to the bar every single workout. It used to be I could add 10 lbs every workout. Then 5. Then 2.5. Then a few lbs every week. Then every 2 weeks. Now it's really hard. Everyone will experience this if they do the exact same thing for a prolonged period of time. Surely you know this. By throwing in some unilateral work, different exercise variations of the squat and deadlift, and switching up my rep schemes, I should be able to continue making progress.

You know I love you naughty, but seriously, this is really basic stuff. You have to switch it up to keep making good gains.

 

I'm fairly certain that you can't just look at someone and judge how much they've trained or how strong they are.

 

At least let's make sure you're not carrying an extra 100kg.

 

Only when I'm in the power rack

 

Your not going to be adding 10lbs to your lifts forever. Its pretty obvious. When you hit close to your peak (which you wont for a loooooooong time) your poundage gains scream to a halt. If you want to do other lifts, thats fine, but adding in random crap to hit different parts of your shoulder is a waste of time.

Spend some time working on Apollo's Axel, sand bag lifts or something if you want to work on raw strength.

I see no point in over complicating something that should be very simple. Lift heavy stuff to get stronger. I've spent the last few years reading random articles and researching health and fitness. I came to the point where I knew too much. Now I just follow a basic program religously. When I dont make any more progress, then I'll change it up. Knowing the way your body gets stronger, from the atomic level, is a waste of time.

 

Sorry Soc, I have to agree with the over-analysis guys here. I know one case isn't conclusive evidence, but for what it's worth - I've been lifting for just over a year and I only ever do nine basic exercises, week in week out, over and over. I'm still regularly adding weight to each of the lifts. Sure, not every week, but so long as progress is being made, that's what matters. There's also no hint of any imbalances whatsoever.

I hate to sound macho, because I'm certainly not, but there's an old saying which I think is perfect for your situation: "Shut up and squat."

 

I'm sorry guys, but I'm not intimidated by anatomy, kinesiology, physiology, etc. I don't see how someone can "know too much". That's a really cute cartoon you posted Cosmicfish, I got a laugh out of it, but if you actually think that it relates to me in the slightest then that's pretty ridiculous. Once again I'll repeat myself and encourage you to take a look at my program and notice that I am squatting or deadlifting with every workout. I have dips, bench press, pullups, rows, and other big compound lifts that make up the bulk of my program.

I've already made it clear that I have time for the supplemental work, so the only argument that leaves you guys with is "Well then those exercises are absolutely useless", which Naughty has touched on...

So, my question is: can you prove it? Or at least adequately explain it? I've posted articles that detail all the myriad benefits of targeting the serratus muscles and your external rotators. Can someone post an article that explains why those are a fantastic waste of time? Can someone explain to me why a weak rotator cuff is desirable? Can someone explain to me why I don't need to balance scapular retraction, scapular protraction, scapular elevation, scapular depression, internal rotation, and external rotation? How is this a bad thing? Better yet, can someone explain to me how it's a good thing to have deficiency and imbalance between these movements?

I can guarantee you both that if you're "religiously" sticking to just a few compound lifts that you are creating large imbalances over time. The core compound lifts are awesome, but they are not all encompassing. There is no big lift that works external rotation that I know of. There is no large compound lift that targets the serratus anterior. There are no large compound lifts that I know of that train scapular depression.

If you two are only using popular compound movements, then it's safe to say you have very deficient external rotators and scapular depressors. This is an imbalance. Just because you might not notice it Cosmicfish doesn't mean it's not there.

So I'm sitting here waiting for somebody to prove to me that it's okay to have these weaknesses, that imbalance is a good thing as long as you're getting strong. You guys have all been dismissive, nothing more. You've not offered anything in the way of proof, evidence, or even a detailed explanation. You just keep squawking over and over "Keep it simple, you don't need that stuff".

I hate to sound macho, because I'm certainly not, but there's an old saying which I think is perfect for your situation: "Step up or shut up."

 

All I have to say is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." You've made good gains with the exercises you're doing now, no reason to complicate stuff more. If you are truly pushing yourself and working hard, you won't have much energy left for all the extra stuff.

Brooks Kubik has an excellent experiment in his book in the chapter on "Abbreviated Training." He essentially says you're free to believe that you can train hard and do lots of different exercises and sets/reps for each and go to the gym frequently. He recommends you try his experiment first though.

THE EXPERIMENT:
Go to the gym, warm-up, then do some light warm-up squats. Load the bar to what you normally do 10 reps with but don't start squatting next. Next, load another bar with a weight you can do for 10 reps with the stiff-legged deadlift (if you don't do those, then do 20lbs over your bent-over row poundage for 10 reps). Load another bar up on a bench with 20-30lbs UNDER your best bench for 10 reps and get a spotter.

Now do the following, no matter how long it takes, if you need short breaks, if you have to strip off poundages, whatever. Just do the following: do 30 reps in the squat (at least parallel), 20 reps in the SLDL (no bouncing), 10 reps with the bench. Then hop up on a pull-up bar and do 15 dead-hang pull-ups. Finish by grabbing your 150lb sandbag and take it for a walk around the block in a bearhug.

After that, you're free to do whatever it is you feel like doing for a well-rounded routine to avoid muscular imbalances. If you feel like working out again the next day or so, in the spirit of fairness, do the same workout but ADD five pounds. Then you can do whatever it is you wish. Work out as often as you want but always do this first. Then after you can do as many exercises as you'd like. Try it out and let us know how it feels.

 

The barbell rear delt row for external rotation, and Kelso shrugs for the last two.

What about those who have been lifting for 20+ years and have never had such imbalances? My O-lifting coach told us about the days he used to train in the Soviet Union for the CCCP O-lifting team. C&J/snatch first, snatch/clean pull from blocks, front/overhead squat, then one assistance exercise (we normally do bent-arm pullovers, GHRs, reverse hypers, pull-ups, or dips). That's all they did and they stomped butt left and right. In comparison, the U.S. team was all about periodization, perfect technique, and doing lots of assistance exercises instead of the lifts themselves. Coincidence that the U.S. has been pretty bad in O-lifting ever since? It's a possibility....

 

Socraistein: Over the next 6 weeks try what you are suggesting. After that compare how you've done versus how you did on the last 6 weeks of simple training. And see which works better.

I think that the simple training will work better, but ultimately it's results, not theory that counts.

 

All I can say is you might be able to get away with some things due to beign a beginner and being young but eventually, you'll have to weed out some exercises and put them in the reserve list...

As we're al saying here, you can know a bunch of theory but you haven't spent enough time training to see the whole picture yet and books can only tell you something that happened but not other things that might happen.

 

That old gem of a saying has very limited applicability, especially to my situation. Of course nothing is "broken", and I have been making good gains, no doubt. By first of all, my sole goal isn't to add weight to the bar, as it seems to be for everyone else in this thread. I don't workout to workout, I workout for the sake of a healthy, balanced, strong body. Second of all, and I can't believe I'm STILL repeating this point, I'm still doing large compound movements with every workout. I'm not taking lifts out and replacing them with supplemental exercises, I'm adding supplemental exercises to my lifts.

Regarding THE EXPERIMENT.

Sounds like some good stuff. Sandbag bearhug around the block sounds brutal with 150lbs. Are you sure he didn't recommend something more like a 75 lb sand bag?

I don't really see the point you're making with it. That's not an argument, it's not even a good point. It's a random suggestion of a random routine.

Neither of those are basic, large compound movements. You can't move a lot of weight with either one. You definitely didn't see Naughty list either one on his list of essential lifts that are all you need. You've only helped to illustrate my point: the two exercises you listed are supplemental ones.

I'm sorry, but that's not an argument, and that's not evidence. You want me to just take your word that you know people who have lifted with simple program for a couple decades and somehow their bodies magically strengthened muscles that they never trained in order to balance itself?

Once again, saying "You just don't know what you're talking about cause you're young" isn't an argument. It's not evidence. It's pitiful at best, and downright rude at worst.

Like I said, if anyone has something solid in the way of why supplemental exercises for shoulder stability and balance are useless, I'm all ears. If nobody does, then I'll assume you guys are just doing some really subtle trolling.

 

I just wanted a picture