My interclub today...

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Tommy-2guns..., May 1, 2010.

  1. Tommy-2guns...

    Tommy-2guns... southpaw glassjaw

    I had an interclub fight today and it had me raising some questions in myself. The interclub was a Thaiboxing event down in cardiff. a simple thing of three 1.30 minute rounds.

    As a background of me that is relervant i used to do Muay thai up until three years ago. And since then i have boxed for the university team.

    Before the fight i didnt manage to train thai boxing as much as i could/ should have. My due Kickboxing coach and cornerman pulled out of MA for personal reasons a few weeks before the fight. But i though bugger it, ill do it anyway, so i turned up to the interclub,

    Luckily a nice bloke that i met on the day who was coaching some fighters said he'd corner me, and i owe him great thanks random bristol MT coach. My fight went terribly wrong from the outset, the guy was fast, he threw tons of combinations and caught me clean a good few times. He didnt kick so well, so i could land a leg kick when i wanted, but when it went to hands most of the time i got a pasting.

    As a result of my pasting i have one black eye, one black eye featuring a large swelling above and under it, a bust lip, crunchy jaw and a bashed in nose.

    Now i am thinking there are a number of reasons why i failed today -

    1) i hadnt trained up my Muay thai again with significant time (though this is ireelervant to a degree because his hands are what bashed me in

    2) I was nowhere near aggressive enough. My aggression was gone, it didnt arrive. i moved forwards through everything and took all that he threw, but my returns where lacklustre. i am happy i didnt falter or move back. But moving forward and getting a pasting, is still getting a pasting.

    3)I had no corner team that knew me, and although the guy that took my corner today was a nice guy, he wasnt my coach.

    4)I failed to capitalize on the good blows i did land, i caught him a cracker on the nose, and then i just...well...went back into guard. Stupid man that i am. it was good enough to open a door to good things and i noobed it up and did nothing.

    As a result of the horizon and face opening that i had today, i am considered the following moves in martial art direction.

    I am thinking that i shall move into MMA, i feel that i am a good natural grappler and can be a much more aggressive grappler than i am a striker. (and i was an aggressive Judoka when i forayed into that). I do love striking still, and i feel i can mix my striking with my naturally move aggressive grappling i could do something good.

    Doing this i think i want to find a good trainer that can build me up as a fighter. I havent had a good coach/ fighter relationship in years and i miss someone knowing how to train me. most have just left me to it, i think i need someone who understands me and can help me devlelop.

    So i dont think i will fight for a good long while, and then i think i will have a crack at MMA when i have rebuilt my tools with a trusted team.

    And so, despite my pretty buggered face, i have learned a lot from my interclub today :)
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Revelations like this, as painful as they are, can be a fantastic learning tool.

    Best of luck to you :cool:
  3. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Yeah sounds like you've learnt a lot from the experience. Retrain and come back stronger!

    Just a thought, what you say reminds me of how I felt in my first(and only!) kboxing match. I felt tentitive and never really felt in the fight. It wasn't physical as much as mental, I had an addreniline dump.

    Did you warm up enough? Next time get a really good sweat going on pads etc beforehand. Also like you say, you need a coach with you who you trust.

    Good luck in the future dude, I bet you'll love MMA, it is wonderful.
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I know where youre coming from. When I went to a wrestling tournament in Brighton, my cornerman was not from my team and had no idea who I was. Therefore gave me advice (never-the less still good advice) but as he didnt know how I move, capabilities etc obviously something didnt work. (that and I got simply outclassed).

    Good luck with the MMA. The only thing I would say to look out for, is that..although you train a pure striking art and a pure grappling art, sometimes mixing them together would confuse you. So you dont start off as well as you thought you would, but dont let that put you off.

    Train well, train smart.
  5. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    I have to say man, you have completely the wrong idea of what an interclub is suppposed to be about. An interclub isn't a fight, it's sparring. Usually heavy sparring but sparring none the less. You don't need someone in your corner and it sounds as if BOTH of you were taking it far too seriously rather than learning. He certainly was if he did that much damage to you.

    Good luck with MMA but the same things are gonna happen there if you don't sort out what you're actually looking for in an interclub. The whole point is to spar with people who have a completely different style, skillset and attitude from what you're used to sparring with. If it doesn't take place on a show then it's NOT a fight. I've attended a few interclubs, both training myself and taking along some fighters from a gym i coach in and if I saw someone acting the way the two of you must've been I'd have told the gym owner to sort it out.

    If you go to MMA with this attitude, then eventually you're gonna come in against a grappler who's better than you but with the same attitude and you'll end up getting something broken. Or, since grappling doesn't automatically negate striking, you STILL might get your face pounded. In fact, it's more likely in MMA since its usually a LOT more aggressive than thai boxing and the striking isn't usually as experienced.

    Take my advice man and chill out. Not the least because you'll find your own technique get's much better if you're relaxed, but also tell anyone who treats an interclub as a fight to chill out. You're not supposed to get your face mashed and I'd be outraged at any coach who told their fighters that they should be trying to hammer someone from another gym at an interclub.
  6. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    Sorry I couldnt be there mate! Sounds like you got to wound up and trying to do to many things rather than just work the guy and create an opening. Something that has never been a problem for you in training!!

    Charging down the line is never a good thing either mind you, turning into me now... ;)

    As Master Betty said its only an interclub you should never go there to give the guy a beating, bit hacked off you came away with a black eye really! Not something that should have happened, who was in the ring? (feel free to pm me or facebook it rather than bringing it on the forum mind!)
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  7. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Nice honest look at your interclub bout. I'm always happy to see when fighters put the thought into the hows and whys of losing. I'll respond bit by bit in the following with my thoughts:

    Is that the standard round length for interclubs where you're at? To me that is short by 30 seconds. Amateur rounds should be 2 min with a 1 min break.

    A couple of things here:

    1) So how long was it since you were training Muay Thai full time?

    2) While boxing is good... the set ups as you know for Muay Thai are pretty different... so the carry over may not always be what you expect.

    3) Yes having your corner pull out for whatever reason will throw a monkey wrench into your whole game plan. Ouch. To my way of thinking that is a BIG issue. When you're in the fight the only person you have in the world is your corner. So no corner is a real drag. This doesn't only happen to you but also to many pro fighters as well. I see it quite often when gyms can't afford to send everyone to another country and will sometimes just send the fighter and have some random person corner for them. It usually doesn't work very well.

    Ah good on him. But as Im sure you now know. Nice guy doesn't = your corner guy.

    As always mate hindsight is 20/20 - if he's a puncher then keep him out and away. If he punches from the outside... nullify that by closing down his distance into clinch and knee range. If he's an infighter.... keep that distance and pick him off from the outside. If he's good at both infighting and the outside ranges... it's your choice... I'd chose to stay in the clinch range.

    Comes with the territory. It takes time to heal. Just manage the damage as best you can with icing and massage. It's not pretty but it happens.

    No absolutely not irrelevant. Your mind will keep you thinking that you are in your last fittest state. Only your reaction and timing and mindset of aggression wont be. So you really want to make sure you are switched on by having your hours in.

    Yep it has to be a fight. You're not there to spar or to shake hands or to trade and then wait for a response. You are there to win and outsmart and beat your opponent that ultimately means out punch and out kick him. You need more punches and more accuracy. You need forward movement as well.

    Bingo. This combined with not having been neck deep in training adds up to a bad combo for you as a fighter. There is an emotional/psychological element to your fight and your coach.

    Yep man happens. That is down to ring rust. Once you get pasted and either get put on the back foot or lose confidence and courage to move forward and let the hands and kicks go it's an uphill battle. Classic ring rust right here.

    That can be a valid direction... but if you had the same circumstances in a grappling bout as you did in this bout... then the outcome could be largely the same. So take your time and think it through. Even in MMA you will still need to keep up your striking. Ring rust will get you there as well.

    One of the most important elements for any fighter to have his game. If not the most important. Everything stems from a good coach!

    I'm a big fan of falling off the horse and getting right back on. Waiting a massive amount of time between bouts is a mistake in my opinion. This moves you exactly in the direction you are already in... not being used to dealing with the pressurization of a fight.

    Granted... you do need a good coach and need time to build up that relationship and assess where you want to go.

    Someone who is good with their hands might not be neutralized right off by a takedown. So it's not a clear bet that you will prevail... so working on some defense and footwork should be on your list no matter the direction you go.

    Yes mate. A few things..

    1) pix or it didn't happen :p

    2) good on ya for going back through and thinking it over

    3) good on ya for posting and getting input on it

    4) you learn a whole lot by losing strangely enough

    Take some time... heal up and find some new angles on training and try to get hooked up with a new coach. If at all possible try to watch footage of the fight. Watching it at different times from the date of the fight really will open up your eyes to see different things.
  8. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Not sure what you guys are doing in your interclub fights but an interclub fight is a fight. You are going up against someone from another gym who is going to try to kick/punch/knee you etc.

    With that obviously the chance to get hammered is there. Do you guys pull your punches or kicks in your interclub fight? Are you hitting with 50% power? If so... what is really the point.

    I'd have to say the majority off places I've been simply don't treat interclubs as sparring. You get caught flush you're running the risk of damage. As simple as that. No reason to say the other guy needs to chill out... it's an interclub fight not a kitten petting competition.

    The whole point of throwing shots with good technique and timing IS to catch your opponent flush. Shots that land flush are supposed to do damage. If the angle and speed and timing are right then a black eye or a busted lip or a concussion could happen. That is the nature of the game. I seriously am having trouble understanding why anyone approaches an interclub fight as 'sparring'. Reprimanding fighters for what they're supposed to be doing in an interclub strikes me as silly.

    Despite what you're trying put out there... it's not only a fight if it happens on a show. Many interclubs can be quite serious and here in Asia there is a healthy tradition of clubs getting together to have tear ups that are all out and just as hard if not harder than a fight on a show.

    So since you've put it out there that you are coaching and training... I'd seriously have to ask you:

    What are you telling your fighters for interclubs?!?!

    Hit half power?

    Go light?

    Ease off on the timing?

    Seriously this just makes no sense.

    From what you've posted it seems you have mistaken the power and timing and grace of what happens in a fight as bad sportsmanship or some such that needs to have fighters reprimanded....

    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  9. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    slip, around here interclubs are there to learn from not to give the other guy a total beating, Ive been to a few where contact is very much controlled and the others where you should have been given travel expenses as it was like being put on a fight card.
  10. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    I wouldn't look at this a failure to be honest mate, I gave everyone prior notice that I would not be attending the event and that I had stepped down for personal reasons. You still chose to go ahead and attend on the day.

    Not having a go here, just sometimes you have to chalk one up to the other guy having a better day than you thats all. As long as you took something away from it that's all that counts at the end of the day
  11. Tommy-2guns...

    Tommy-2guns... southpaw glassjaw

    Slip - thankyou for the thought out advice :), to answer your questions that you asked it had been three years since i had trained MT fulltime, and i had a few refreshers sessions with doug a few weeks before. I will take a good review of what you said, i shall keep you posted on what direction i decide to go in.

    Doug - aye i know the other lad was better than me on the day but i still wanted to try and have a look at some tangible reasons as to why. and dont think that i am sore at you for not being able to attend, you gave me enough notice and me deciding to have a crack on my own was very much my own choice.

    And i dont look on the event as a failure, infact i really enjoyed it :), it just had mke feeling philosophical as to why i didnt perform as well as i could have done, and what i could do in the future to fix it. I dont feel i have enough aggression in my striking as i do in my grappling, both are things i'll need to work on but it came to me that MMA might be an idea, but god knows what im doing yet. I am, like you, having a personal training decision crisis :)!
  12. liero

    liero Valued Member

  13. Patrick Smith

    Patrick Smith Tustom Cuser Uitle

    That's the spirit! :cool:

    I think that the losers of a match often get a lot more out of it then the winners. The winners won the match and they may or may not analyze how well they fought, but the loser goes over the fight over and over again (I certainly do).
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I dunno about you but when I've not sparred for a while my timing goes right out.
    I can still hit the pads and bags, still "feel" like I can spar to a certain level but then when I try to hit someone I'm an inch short every time, a split second too late.
    For me it's a very intangible quality but can make a massive difference to your performance. Power is power, cardio is cardio but timing...well that's a whole different ball-game.

    And have a think about what the other guy might be feeling.
    He could be sat at home right now wondering what he did to perform so well!
    Perhaps it all went well for him and he's equally bemused as to why.
    You could have just hit him on a good day and he performed beyond what even he expected.
    We all have days where things gel and days when things don't. It can be a bad day when you have an off day and he has an on one.

    It's not all about your failure...but his success too. That's not to belittle your performance but to try and put it into perspective.
  15. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    My dad once told me a story about when he was on National Service immediately after the war. He was a good shot my dad, had a bit of a reputation as a marksman, so was invited to a shooting competition with the officers one evening.

    He described it as having one of those perfect evenings where he couldn't do anything wrong. He didn't seem to try, yet hit everything brilliantly, shot close to a perfect score. He had never shot that well before and never did again, yet it felt effortless.

    Maybe that was what happened to Tommy's opponent?

    The officers never asked my dad back to shoot again, btw :D

  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I remember fighting in the TAGB british champs one year. Forgot my contact lenses and yet (or maybe because of that) I didn't put a foot wrong. Head kick after head kick hit the mark. I even beat one guy without him landing a point on me and won gold in the end. It was like I had head attracting feet.

    I'd never fought that well before or since. :(
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    It's cos you is a heretic now innit? Dave Oliver has cursed your feet.

    Mitch :D
  18. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Well this isn't asia - not that it makes a difference since doing interclubs the way we do them here still allows us to produce fighters good enough to compete with thais.

    At no point did I suggest that someone lay off timing or hit half power - I specifically said heavy sparring. Do you lay off the timing on sparring? Hit half power? No. I've not been to thailand myself yet as money/time/injuries have conspired against me but my gym regularly sends a few of our fighters there to train and also bring thai coaches over to coach and I know fine well we usually spar harder than the thais because we can afford to pick up injuries since we don't fight every second week. This still doesn't mean you should be going to an interclub and hyping it all up as if it's some sort of a fight. hell, you don't know anything about what kind of fighter you could be matched with, how big the weight/height/experience difference is gonna be or what kind of gym he's from. The whole point is heavy sparring with peopel you don't normally spar with - it takes you out of your comfort zone and is provides a larger opportunity for learning that sparring repeatedly with people from your own gym who're getting the same coaching as you.

    You're correct about your point regarding the time - most amatuer organisations stipulate 3 x 2 minute rounds although as far as I'm aware the WKA are a bit weird and slightly dodgy. Personally, I think a fighter should be training for 5 rounds whether they're am or pro since IMO it should be the eventual goal of every am fighter to fight under pro rules.

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