multiple opponents

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by snake_vs_crane, Oct 2, 2003.

  1. snake_vs_crane

    snake_vs_crane Valued Member

    i have a lot of respect for both striking and grappling, however there is something i dont quite get when it comes to dealing with multiple opponents;

    now anyone with half a brain can tell you that your chances in a self defense situation where you are outnumbered are always small, but i have been hearing that striking is far superior to grappling in this area, which of these do you think would be more effective:

    a striker trying to knock down multiple attackers

    or

    a grappler grabbing the first attacker and using him as a sheild?

    just genuinely curious on which of these you think would work the best.
     
  2. jmd161

    jmd161 Hak Fu Mun

    That is a situation i don't think either would like to be in. As you stated already it's a small chance of being able to come out on top against those odds.

    I don't really know much about grappling except for the little wrestling i did many yrs back.I of course being a striker would take my chances by either trying to escape.Or if i had to defend myself then lord forgive me,but i'm going to make it home.

    I'm not going to waste movements or just try and hurt one hoping the others will stop.As long as they are comming after me i will be trying to seriously hurt or maybe cripple them.I would deal with the law after the attack is over.

    My sifu dealt with 7 guys on a subway in New York.They tried to attack him which i'm sure they regret now! But my sifu was able to knock the first four out with two kicks and two punches.Two others ran away when they saw this ,but a big 300lbs guy with them thought he could take my sifu still.:rolleyes:

    Oh well after about 8 quick slaps.This big guy was actually crying like a baby from the power of my sifu slaps.They helped each other up and departed the train without saying another word.


    jeff:)
     
  3. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Neither. You need to be good at both grappling and striking to come out of a situation like that. Rely on striking and they'll eventually get inside your range and bear you to the ground. Rely on grappling and you'll get hit while you grapple. Use a combination of the two and you just might get out of it without a trip to the hospital.
     
  4. Bouk Teef

    Bouk Teef Valued Member

    Any situation where you are outnumbered is a bad one! My advice would be to first try and talk your way out. I don't mean wait for somebody to try and hit you. If the opertunity presents itself to run then I would suggest do exactly that.
    If, however, it is clear that the conflict will come to blows then definately favour strikes over trying to grapple. Go for maximum damage in a short time in order to make an escape. At the end of the day surviving is what it is all about. You don't need three blokes rolling about in agony to say you survived the situation where giving somebody a good thump in the throat may be good enough to create an escape route. Having created an opening the choice is simple - RUN LIKE ****!!!!!
     
  5. sholo86

    sholo86 Teoul Moon Kung Fu

    I think the smartest thing to do first , is to take yourself out of the fight by talking. A lot of fights normally start because of miscommunications and misunderstandings. Talking is the key.

    With multiple attackers I think the striker have a better chance of leaving the fight with the least amount of physical injuries than a grappler. I don't know much about grappling but when I hear the the word "grappling", the first thing that comes to my mind are two individuals rolling around on the ground trying to put a submission hold on each other. If you're already down on the ground, what would stop the attackers on holding you down and foot-stomping, punching the heck out of you.
    I'm trying to picture a grappler putting submission holds on five attackers at once or am I really that ignorant about grappling. I need some enlightenment then.
     
  6. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    One size does not fit all ...
     
  7. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Perhaps you should find out more about grappling then. It's Brazillian Jujutsu that tends to mean grappling on the floor. Most styles of Japanese Jujutsu do standing grappling, which are fast techniques designed to either quickly break a joint or throw the opponent to the ground, where he can be kicked or punched to make him stay down. It does not mean going to the ground with him, which is a very bad idea in a multiple attacker situation (as you pointed out).

    Grappling under those circumstances can be a very viable strategy, as you are covering your angles with one of your attackers. While you deal with one, you can defend against others with quick strikes, though if you are needing to drive off more than one additional attcker, you are too slow and will likely get hurt.

    The point I'm trying to make once again is that striking on its own is not enough. Neither is grappling on its own. You need both to even pretend you can survive a multiple attacker situation. There are alsways more variable with more attackers, and one fighting method will not allow you to cover most of the possibilities.
     
  8. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    With the third hand you've got while your other two are dealing with your first attacker?
     
  9. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Or possibly a leg... You do have 4 limbs, unless you've had a nasty accident, so a back kick is still very much possible when grabbing an opponent. However, the best bet is to be as quick as possible with the grappling technique so you aren't left in the position where you have to hold on to one opponent and deal with a second. That's very dangerous...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2003
  10. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I hear all of this theoretical talk about striking and grappling in real fights and have to wonder how many people have actually had their skills tested.

    In a scrap the transition between striking and grappling can be a blurry thing at best.

    Col
     
  11. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Which is why I'm so adamant about needing to practise both striking and grappling if you want to even have a chance of coming out the other side of a multiple attacker situation. You can't rely on one range or the other, because it's what the opponents do that will influence what you CAN do in response.
     
  12. sholo86

    sholo86 Teoul Moon Kung Fu

    It would be nice to hear from somebody who had experience fighting multiple attackers.

    Didn't get to experience such incidents. Doesn't mean opportunity didn't present itself, its just that I tend to talk my way out of fights before it really gets ugly. Plus fighting... really bad for my career.

    Oh! Does fighting three guys/opponents during belt testing count? I guess NOT! :)
     
  13. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I've fought two and won, fought ten and lost.

    Grappling was never an option.
     
  14. Kenpo_Chris

    Kenpo_Chris New Member

    When I train to fight multiple attackers, I try to keep them all in front of me. Being between 2 people makes for a more difficult fight. Using one as a shield isn't a bad idea either!
     
  15. BryanX

    BryanX Valued Member

    That would be hard to do. What if they surround you?
     
  16. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    In a multiple attacker situation, I try to take out the first guy with pure ruthless aggression, and hope the rest vomit.

    Barring that, you need to be aware of each assailant, any weapons makeshift or otherwise at your disposal, and most importantly situating yourself for a hasty retreat.

    If there is no way out, talk your way out. Never stop attacking once there is no other option, and keep your footing.

    The only reason to fight on the ground in a multiple attack situation is if you are taken down. Your only goal from there is to stand back up. Don't worry about submissions, or even pounding the guy. Get up.
     
  17. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    Yeah,I think you guys are forgeting that the enviroment(and your own common sense and practicality) comes into play in a big way as mentioned by One on One in dealing with multiple agressiors.


    I have had expereince with multiple agressiors(although I don't think personal testomony should dictate absolutism),and the bottom line is I did the bolt,but not before I put one or sometimes 2 people into the ground usually by way of the clinch(break ballance,which I am going to call grappling), the others I have found often hesitate when you put one of there own down.And I not even mentioning the aviable natural weapons that may be about.

    If you guys are into standing your ground and taking them all on Welllll, whatever turns you on Bros......:eek:

    The whole reason I went to grappling/wrestling arts is that
    A.I found in the real stuff people get up and close real quick(regaurdless whether they are striking or pushing/grabing etc)
    B.strikes **** people off quicker then pushing them or throwing them around
    C. I'm a little guy(66kg),and the facts are my strikes won't put a big 100kg ****ed off dude down
    That and submisson stuff is great fun to train :D

    Don't get me wrong I'm into striking but I can strike just as well form the clinch or mount or even guard as I can from 1.5 ms away,and personally I have a lot more aviable options from the clinch.

    For me this stuff (striking, Grappling, kicking, breaks,throws weapons) are all inseparable.

    By the way what you see in a BJJ comp is probally not how they would handle a real altercation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2003
  18. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Situational Awareness is a key, it initially allows you to avoid a confrontation, and secondly allows you to you what you've got.

    In one instance 5 guys jumped me down a small alley, I got a complete shoeing, but grabbed onto one guy put my back to the wall so it limited the other guys shots. Eventually managed to batter the grabbed guy off of the other wall and leg it.

    But I have been in instances where 3 on 1 I've thrown one guy into another and battered the remaining guy whilst the other two are lying on the deck.

    Col
     
  19. timmeh!

    timmeh! New Member

    The bigger your arsenal be it grappling, striking, pressure points, avoidance, head butting, chewing??? whatever..., and the fitter and better trained you are, and with a conscious effort to stay away from those areas, the better chance you have really. The "staying away from the dodgy areas" works well for me especially after having a few drinks.
    Having ended up in hospital in various states of brokeness during my teenage years and early twenties gave me a keen sense of where trouble is.... I've never had a one on one or even a two on one fight in the street, there was always at least half a dozen of them in their shell suits (give the Geordies their due, they were consistent :D) it's almost a sixth sense now cos hospital stinks and the food is terrible.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I'm on the strike or grappler or whatever I can do side!

    This is one of those topics that varies based on the actual situation. I have been in a few of these and it is a very different 'ball-game' than multiple attackers. Here is my "personal" philosophy on dealing with multiple attackers:

    (1) If possible, talk your way out or run away (best bet)

    (2) If you have to fight, do it quickly, brutally and efficiently... hurt the first few with sensitive area strikes, including eyes, groin, throat etc. If you get a grab, don't go for submission... caryy it through and hyper-extend and/or break and quickly move to the next guy.

    (3) If they overwhelm (they probably will) and you go down to the ground... same thing... attack sensitive areas with intent to maim and apply submissions to break and move on.

    (4) DURING the incident - Be vocal : Keep yelling for help and look for an escape route. Also, try to keep opponents in front of other opponents.

    (5) If they overwhelm and get you down and start to put the boots to you... curl up, go tomone side and bring knees up to protect groin and midsection and keep elbows/arms in front of face/neck and ribs. Don't fall for the urge to grab one... it'll open you up to the others... (although making sure their kicks hit the point of your elbow is good)... at this point you just have to weather it and survive. Stay as calm as possible.

    (3) Eventually they will try to overwhelm
     

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