multiple opponents

I thought Crazy Monkey was more of a defensive concept than a system in it's own right???

That sounds very similar to something my old FMA instructor, who funnily enough worked the doors, taught me.

 

Crazy monkey that sounds fun.

 

I don't have a problem with people that have learning difficulty or that use English as a second language. I also understand that lots of people have problems with spelling.

However, when one wants to be read, one takes the time to communicate to the best of their ability. To not do so shows a lack of respect for your message and those that you are trying to communicat with. No one expects that every member will write PHD level dissertations, but I think that we can expect that people do the basic job of making what they write readable. If you don't care enough to make it easy to understand, why should others bother to spend the effort?


As far as being a very short-sighted, intolerant and impatient person and being new to martial arts, I would hazard that your assumptions are because you made no more effort in finding out about me than you do in writing your messages.

 

When I write my messages I do so quickly because 1)I have a lot of commitments, 2) I have a problem with my eyes due to injures recieved in the service of my country. 3)Spending too much time on the computer gives me bad headaches and tires me. so I do post to the best of my ability.4) I also hate computers and spend as little time on them as possible so I don't get much practice.
5) I can't type.
Your hazard at a guess would be wrong, I assumed from your name New Learner that you might be new to the arts. It's an easy mistake to make as your name suggests, that, and your snooty comments & attitude towards my grammer and spelling
There is an E on the end of communicate. If you want to be Mr. Picky.
And if you'd have bothered to find out about me, you would have discovered why my posts are often misspelled or details are missing, because it takes me a lot of pain time and effort to look at the screen.

 

That's nothing Mark Macyoung has a move he calls Nighty night bunny rabbit!

 

Reel Deel, it takes a little effort to format your paragraphs so they are readable. Like you and everyone else, I am busy too. My own eyes are not the greatest. When you see a post that has little white space in it and is missing punctuation, it is harder to read. As you say, there are a lot of posts here and keeping up with them is difficult. Simple things like adding a blank line between paragraphs makes it far more aesthetic as well as readable.

If your eyes are giving you problems because of the monitor, pm me and I will see if I can provide you some tips that might help. I work with a lot of vision impaired people and help them in setting up their computers.

I have to say, that is the first time I have ever been called snooty. The reason I chose NewLearner as a name is because I am relatively new to take formal classes in TKD. But it is really more of an attitude. We all have new things to learn and benefit from. I would like to continually be a new learner of something.

 

Run!

Sprinting is the only sure way to defeat multiple opponents.

 

Thanks for the offer of help I may take you up on that.
I am unwell at the moment so I am a bit too grouchy to post here.
Sorry to have a go at you.
Really have to take a chill pill for a while, until I am better.

 

What if you can't run?

 

info to check out if you have the balls

To the people who think that I am over the top etc, over my aproach to Multiple attackers.

I will refer you all to Lee Morrison's Urban combatives site at

www.urbancomabtives.com

And I will say no more on the subject as this man can say far more and explain it more lucidly than I ever could.

He also refers the viewer to several more sites which all tally with what I have said so many times before that I am now bored to death with the whole subject.

 

Another good read for multiple opponents is Combat Kick Boxing by Pat O'Keefe.. It isn't simply kickboxing adapted, it uses common techniques like the jab, cross, hooks and basic kicks to explain in detail what to do if you can't run. Also deals with single opponents and how to spot the danger early if possible. A good self-defense read really. :woo:

 

The best advice i ever got for beating multiple people is this, pick the biggest guy and knock him out as quick as possible... if you cant go that then your f*cked anyways

 

Its these bread and butter techniques which are common across all CREDIBLE Self Defence styles.

Also the softer skills of spotting things early etc.

 

Given that most one on one fights end up on the ground, the chances of you being able to defend yourself against multiple opponents are slim.

Typically, you'll be taken to the ground by the first and/or second person that attacks you and then the remaining "opponents" will proceed to kick you in the back and the head whilst you're down.

It seems to me, naive to believe that a martial art is going to be effective against this, because unlike in the "dojo", the attacks are not dictated by an instructor!

 

I must say that after 7 years of security work in rough pubs and clubs this idea of most fights ending up on the ground just isnt the case in my experience.

We need to look at the culture and environment that most street fights occure in .... the UK is different to the US, the US is different to Brazil, brazil is different to the philipenes. the BJJ idea that 'most fights end on the ground' may well be correct in the context of brazil. But i can say from experience that it isnt the case in the UK. Just like the knife fighter culture of the philipenes etc isnt the same as the UK or Brazil .... I wonder if you would want to drop to the floor or use the UK standard techniques in the philipenes if there was a couple of blade holding guys after you!!

In reality (for the UK) you will be very very very LUCKY if when involed in a self defence situation you will be dealing with a single opponent. In virtually every attack, defence, fight etc i have been involved in and seen there is multiple opponents involved.... think about it .... people are RARELY alone in the environments where self defence in normally required.

I have seen people use kick boxing or boxing to fend off a meat head drugged up addict and then get knocked out because they didnt see the threat from behind, I have seen grapplers on the deck getting stamped on and bottled, I have seen people glassed, stabbed, have eye sockets crushed etc etc.

The FACT of the matter is that although most people like to think if they are in a combative situation there will be time to read the situation or Duel with a single opponent ... .you wont.

You have to work with sound principles that can be applied in any situation, any environment and any number off opponents.

Stacking your training is a nice way to see if your abilities stand up ... get padded up, start fighting one guy .... then have another two step in at a random point .... see how your mind copes with this. Do your techniques stand up? How does your movement change? can you apply a right cross on someone coming from behind you? how do you attack this person? Does your footwork cater for multiple attackers. This is the way you will find out if you can 'do the work'.

Then put blunt metal knives and empty watter bottles in their hands .... can you still do your work in this situation or do you have to change your 'techniques' dramatically.

IME the best thing you can do is learn sound principles that work in a multple opponent situation ... if you find yourself in a one on one .. you will have everything you need.... do it the other way round and you may find yourself seriously out gunned!!

Cheers
Chris

 

In the UK, it is unlikely that you will find yourself face to face with a group of blade wielding mutants on a regular basis.

Multiple opponents working together will find it relatively easy to knock down a person regardless of how balanced their stance is. I can't obviously proove this over an Internet forum, but I would venture a guess that the victim is likely to end up on the ground in a situation like that. We're talking about multiple opponents here, not the exchanging of a few punches between a couple of drunk men in a pub.

 

Yes it's true if you get surrounded the odds are that you are going to be taken onto the floor, however the point of this thread is to discuss defiling and other way of trying to even the odds. For example being on higher ground or defiling opponents make it slightly easier. In an open area when surrounded however it becomes hard to pick the ground to fight on and you must try and clear a route for yourselves.

I'm not really sure about the different styles of street fighting in different countries though.. Is there really that much of a difference? I would have thought with all humans being basically the same the hunting instinct would act in a similar way all over the globe? Or am I grossly mistaken lol!

 

Not sure, how relevant this reply is.

But I take ITF TKD. yes I do agree TKD does lack close combat skills in its arsenal. But with regards to the multiple attack issue, my instructor 4th Dan occasionally throws in multiple attack scenerios.

On one occassion he asked the whole class of 30 students to really go at him and black belts. I suppose to give himself a good work out as well as giving the black belts an opportunity to learn awareness the hard way. Anyhow i think most black belts surrended after being pummelled to death by 6 guys but my instructor...well lets just say was having the time of his life. He danced around and destroyed anyone that came near. Eventually the crowded thinned enough...most lying on the floor - winded.

I think in most multiple opponent cases is as most rightly say is to "leg it" but if the worst comes to the worst you may have to hold them or hurt them enough to have second thoughts. :woo:

 

If you think this is the extent of what a doorman or security professional has to deal with then maybe read some of geoff thompson or similar writings on the reality. It is far from this. Many many people that kick off arnt drunk at all but are fighters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ7BzilGSGo&search=UK street fight

watch this clip. a few end up on the ground and it is due to being knocked down with a heavy head strike or from KO ... not from grappling or take downs.

Once down there these people have little opportunity to get up and they are not grappling with someone down there... they are covering up and hoping for the best ... this is the reality of ground work in MO situations.

Also watch for the people that move around alot during the assult .... they generally fair alot better ... and the others dont 'take them down'.

In the heat of things people generally want to 'smash the guys head in' ... unless trained in grappling. So you will see alot of head strikes alot of stamping and kicking when on the ground but not so much grappling or 'ground work'.

I think there is plenty of evidence to support the notions that different cultures have different types of specifics in violence. Go to the philipenes and talk to some of the guys that face it daily. Then come to the UK and talk to some of the guys that face it daily ... Sure you will hear a big difference in the intent, intencity, methods and amount of fatalities.

cheers
Chris