Would judo be useful against multiple enemies? Because it seems a disadvantage to get the situation to the ground. However I do realise that I may well be speaking out of my bumhole. Thank you for any of you willing to enter clarity to my mind.
You just stated exactly why Judo WOULD be of help in a multiple attacker situation. Judoka are, above else, very good at knocking people over and not being knocked over themselves. While it doesn't have the multiple-attacker focus of say, Silat (which interestingly enough, also contains a great deal of groundfighting), Judo would certainly be of aid in not getting wrestled to the ground and stomped on. And if someone does take you to the ground, Judo would help in choking them/breaking something important/standing back up. Definitely not the best system for multiple attacker situations, but it would have it's advantages.
Cheers sir Thank you very much for your concise and unpatronising answer. That does indeed make sense and i welcome your clarity. Thanks again, you big, mighty claw
Judoka are very good at balance breaking, so it makes sense that if anybody could manipulate people into crashing into one another, then it would be a Judoka.
So you mean, being able to grapple is actually USEFUL against multiple attackers? Someone get me a stake and some firewood!
What,as opposed to not knowing judo?Think it might be a tad hard to hit someone when their throwing someone over their shoulder,possibly at you
There are a couple of things to remember here. Firstly, judo is equal parts standup and groundfighting - you don't *have* to take the fight to the ground. What you're thinking of is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is a similar but different art that advocates taking the fight to the ground. Judo's standing throws are powerful techniques on their own, and even if all they do is put your opponent on the ground without causing a great deal of damage, that puts you at an advantageous position and gives you a chance to get away. Secondly, a large part of the reason you learn to fight on the ground is so that you know how to get back on your feet if you end up there. OK, so you don't want to be on the ground, but you know how to roll into the top position and then get back up. Good luck doing that if you don't know groundfighting.
But if any of these opponents is not a pushover, how are you supposed to beat them? Ask the non-pushover to close his eyes and count to ten while you knock out the pushovers?
from my limited time during judo i wudnt really consider it effective for street defense let alone multiple attackers afterall its mianly a sport now or as my teacher says jiu jitsu without all the nasty bits not exactly what u want in a street situaiton. It can be adapted for street just like most ma's and the throws wud be useful i guess but i cant imagine anyone landing a hip throw or some other fancy move in a proper fight althouhg it wud be cool lol. Id say 80% stuff ive learnt wud be completely useless on street and the fact they dont cover striking on ground is a massive disadvatnge as it is a skill in in itself. As far knowing ground fighting for street is concerned and multiple attackers then id say its a must. Obviously youd rather just strike them and not go to ground but chnaces are it wud if they caught u unexpectably. Im not putting judo down i really like it its the most fun ive had doing ma but against multiple attackers and street situiations better to choose a striking art or bjj.
I've been in a few altercations myself and I've gotten away with pulling off O-goshi, O-soto gari and morote gari, to great effect. So for multiple opponents you'd choose to study the predominently ground based style of BJJ over the one with equal parts stand-up and ground?
I witnessed someone KO'd by o-soto-gari. The guy rushing in to back him up slammed on the brakes pretty sharpish too and stood there looking stupid! Made me laugh. Judo is just as effective in a "r34l" situation as anything. Possibly more so as its trained against resisting opponents. As to whether grappling (and I'm distinguishing this from "fighting on the ground" here) is effective in a real situation...The distance is closed pretty quickly in my experience in "real" fights...one or two punches, and if they don't make contact or knock someone down then you're into close range. And what's the first thing that happens when the distance is closed? Grabbing, grappling, clinch...whatever you want to call it, and that is where any throwing art (judo, jujitsu, sambo etc etc) excels. I'd rather know it and have the option than solely rely on striking.
Although a popular misconception, this is wrong. The founder of judo was a master instructor in various styles of JJ. He devised judo as a MA system, based on JJ which incorporated a range of techniques which could be practised full force, against fully resisting opponents. What was left is a vast array of effective techs which can be practiced and drilled full-force: - throws - which can only be practised full-force on mats with a partner who can breakfall, throwing onto hard ground against someone who can or can't breakfall then its gonna hurt or KO - g/work - a range of pins and subs which are just as effective as any MA, but ones which can be trained, fully resisting without too much concern of injury i.e. if you're caught you have time to tap. If the opponent doesn't tap the locks still break joints and the strangles and chokes still do what their names suggest. As a judoka gainst multiple attackers you'd be looking to use throws as KOs. If you know striking you'd obviously use that too.
The idea of fighting multiple opponents (when by oneself). If there are two opponents, you might be able to protect yourself and take them both out, I suppose. But I take "multiple" to mean some amount that might indeed be more than two. And fighting three people if even one of them is good enough to give me trouble were this a one-on-one confrontation seems destined to result in me losing miserably. One opponent gives me enough trouble that I don't fancy my odds of beating multiple opponents.
So judo was suppose to be deadly martial art with all the nasty bits left in lol? Ill tlk to my teacher about it next lesson sounds interesting ill look it up when i get more time. Well as far as throws working on street they can after all ur average joe does double leg takedowns and simple trips. If you guys used them fair enough but on the whole i cant see much use or anything that wud despertaly seperate judo throws on street from bjj or sambo afterall they have the basic no gi takedowns. Obviously ur going to be effcient in using them but i dont thk its a massive factor. Most of stuff ive done require a good grip of gi to execute especially ground work, last lesson we spent most lesson learning how to tie someone up with one lol very fun. Id pick bjj becus the ground fighting covers striking, u dont want to roll around with the guy while his m8 kiks u in teeth u want to end it with some strikes and get the hell off the ground. Also another interesting tactic some of u might have seen is geoff thompson pyschological barrier he creates. Its in his animal day or 3 second fighter video worth a look. He basically yells at anyoe who looks like they cud step in really aggressive not sure if it wud work though. Obviously just becus ur system encorgaes u to always take fight to ground doesnt mean u will in a multiple attak situaiton afterall bjj sambo have throws that wud knock someoen out on pavement. This whole 50 50 stand up groundwork doesnt apply under judo rules it heavily favours stand up and i know alot of balckbelts who just turtel when on ground and wait for ref to stand up. This is a bit off the point but just an observation i made, afterall u effectively train urself to curl up on ground and not fight. I prob feel that way since i prfer gw as im better at it lol
I don't follow your logic there? All those three arts are gi based and I would hardly say that BJJ has an equal emphasis on throws as either judo or sambo Why is that a disadvantage? Why is no-gi the way to go for "the street"? How many people wear clothes in an altercation (eg a shirt or a jacket). I for one have never seen anyone in a fight wearing just a pair of sprawl shorts. Wouldn't you rather learn to take someone down and remain STANDING? So you didn't have to worry about getting back up again? That's one of BJJ's biggest detracting factors I'm afraid. Worked for him pretty well otherwise he wouldn't be so well known. No one would believe a guy that got KO'd in every street fight he had. BJJ? How does jumping guard knock someone out?
The things that were removed were the things that can't be practiced against resistance. The remaining judo techniques are nasty enough. I know I wouldn't want to get thrown onto concrete by a judoka, or armbarred when I can't tap out.
Why is that a disadvantage? Why is no-gi the way to go for "the street"? How many people wear clothes in an altercation (eg a shirt or a jacket). I for one have never seen anyone in a fight wearing just a pair of sprawl shorts. Gi and normal clothes can differ greatly in terms of grip, u cud get get lucky and start a fight with well dressed people lol. Seriously thouhg when i was wiritng i was thking about gi and using the belt to tie oppenent etc... since thats what i had done in my last judo lessen. Obviously u cud still use ur grip to some extent but i dont fancy grabbing someone in a traditonal judo grip whiles hes trying to punch my face in. I say bjj becus they have alot of non gi comps and train in it regulalry. Anyone whos fought with a gi on fight say with a t shirt will know how much of a difference it is. Its like people who teach hair pulling for self defense not eveyone has got it, u might have to do without but if its their its useful. Wouldn't you rather learn to take someone down and remain STANDING? So you didn't have to worry about getting back up again? That's one of BJJ's biggest detracting factors I'm afraid. Well actually there are throws in bjj that take down oppenent without having to go down. Of course u wud like to in this situation but chnaces are you wud be taken to the ground unless u were some elite martial artsist auditoning for some upcoming movie. I have hard time imagining some guy throwing guys left right and centre without going down. BJJ? How does jumping guard knock someone out? [/QUOTE] Dont know you tell me? lol i was refering to its strike based training on ground i feel its way more useful then simply just grappling. Geoff thompson incorprates striking in his animal day its essential and bjj beats judo in this department hands down lol. Again if ur not use to recieivng punches in ur garppling let alone biitng who knows how well you going to cope on street. If geoff thompsosn tactic works as well as u say then taking fight to ground isnt as bad as it seems. Relying too much on throwing someone when u can learn basic throws that do the same job and learn striking from the ground properly seems silly. p.s Sorry for my sarcy response cudnt be bothered to argue properly lol just taking a break in between uni assignment .
What about when people grab your clothing? In my experience this happens a lot in fights The no-gi comps you talk about don't have striking and the majority of the fancy moves, distance closing and takedowns won't work either in a situation where someone is trying to "punch your face in" It was a joke belittling BJJ-ers habit of jumping guard to get people down Then by your arguement, what use is a submission only no-gi BJJ comp? And why can a judoka do that any less effectively than a BJJ player? No worries
I have never seen or heard of a BJJ striking competition. Only submission grappling in the gi and no gi flavor... I dont think incorporating striking into a grappling situation is a regular thing in BJJ clubs. We do stikes in our judo club (never in competition), and we jump in the ring to do a little light contact MMA. I have 14 years of TKD and one thing is clear, a grappler will beat a striker in a grappling situation. Their is a brown blet that have been going for 3 years and he hands me my but every time we hit the ground (he cant thow a side kick to save his life, but he can arm bar me in his sleep). Ippon say o naggie, o goshi, o soto garie, those are all basic thows. Yes BJJ teaches them, but I bet you ten to one a judoka can do them alot obetter than a BJJer. As for Gi and no gi, I belive it is important to train in both. Their are alot of thows you can pull off no gi (watch caro persian) and they hurt.
