Mounting Trouble

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by flashlock, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Well, I've been doing BJJ for a few weeks now. Boy, I suck! Last night in class, I had this big guy on me in mount. The drill was they were just to keep you in mount, and your goal was to escape-- 2 mins.

    I didn't know how to start really. The yellow belt on top of me said I needed to create space with my elbows first, and try to move to my side. I finally recalled that stuff, but it's so hard against a resisting opponent.

    I couldn't even get my elbows into him, so instead, I ground the knuckles of my fist into his ribcage. I don't know, he hopped off me quick, and laughed, but then hopped right back into mount, so I did it again.

    He said, "OK, I can do dirty stuff too," and he layed on my face and smothered me with his seaty gi till I tapped.

    We laughed about it. I don't know what I'm doing or if knuckle grinding is even legal.

    Advice on escaping the mount, getting space, and is it legal grinding your knuckles into someone's ribs? :)
  2. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Yellow belt? Under 16 or what? And yeah, that's what practice is for.

    Knuckle grinding is legal but doesn't work on someone hyped up on adrenaline or with any kind of pain tolerance.

    Two basic escapes from mount: trap+roll (upa) and elbow escape (shrimp/ebi). They combo into each other nicely.

    I hope you know the trap+roll already but anyways, you trap one arm and pull it across a bit (just stop him from posting with it) and then trap the same side ankle with your own lower leg. Then bridge and roll to the side you trapped the limbs of while pulling further on the arm and leg. Ideally you end up in top in his guard.

    Often, however, they will free their leg and post out with it as you try to roll them. Immediately elbow escape (elbow to knee!!) using the space created by their leg being posted out. This will allow you to work on recovering guard, which may be a multistep process of its own.

    If you're comfortable with half guard you can also work on trapping just one leg with your own legs and then working from there (turn into them and try to get an underhook on the same side as the trapped leg). If you have a good elbow escape it's hard for them to stop getting caught in half, and from there you have a lot of options.

    But more importantly ask your instructor before your next class to help you a bit with fundamental escapes. They're generally the first things you learn in BJJ but it often takes longer than it should because people unnecessarily figure it out largely on their own. Be proactive in your training. Ask for instruction, that's why he's an instructor.
  3. 1bad65

    1bad65 Valued Member

    Atharel is quite correct and gave very good and sound advice. You also do not want to get mounted 'high'. You want their body over your hips, not your chest. You can tuck your elbows and put them into the guys knee/thigh area so he cannot move up to a high mount. You can still use your hands to protect your neck(in gi) or face(in mma) while your elbows are keeping them 'low'.
  4. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Great advice, thanks. He kept getting that high mount. I'm just learning these positions, so I can't really automatically do anything, I need 5 seconds per shift in position to recall what to do. It is a little frustrating... might ask for some basic help next time before class.
  5. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    I guess another reason I wanted to post this was that my "theoretical" knowledge about grappling is pretty good, but actually doing BJJ is feeble. I've been told in 6 months I'll be able to handle these basic positions a lot better. I'm a little perplexed because I wrestled free-style in High School for 2 years; those experiences help, but not too much! Just a little surprised at how different BJJ is. Hm.
  6. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    You mean was he under 16 yrs old? No, about 25-30 years old if that's what you meant. Taller and bigger than me. I found it much easier to escape the mount vs someone my size or smaller (I'm medium built).
  7. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    Some tips to add. There are two ways to trap the arm. If you go over the arm, bring it in strong and tight. Or if you can't get your arm over (like if your arms are in tight where they belong), you can trap his arm by bringing your hand to your ear.

    Also, when you upa, the closer you bring your feet to your butt, the stronger you can bridge. If he's got you grapevined, just bring your foot out to the side, then up and over. You can't bridge up if your legs are being tied up.

    That's a great drill. I do okay against most guys now, but body weight and the claustrophobia from being cooked out like that is tough. Even after almost 6 months, when I'm outweighed by 50 or more lbs, I'll have a tough time breathing sometimes.

    Of course, you'll learn all of this before long in your class. It takes time.
  8. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    I think he was asking because yellow isn't a standard BJJ belt color. I've heard of green being used by the American Top Team, but never yellow. Are you sure it wasn't just a very dirty white? :)
  9. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    You have a fever that only more cowbell - err. More mat-time. More mat-time can cure it.

    Write down how you feel about the positions and various techniques, note how successful you are in keeping positions, advancing positions, trying submissions. In 6 months do the same, then compare them. You'll be shocked.
  10. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Thanks for your feedback! We have to keep our arms tight to our chest, hands close together, or we get punished with push ups! I tried to bridge out, but was advised not to (don't know why). I couldn't trap his arms because they were pinned against his chest as he lurched over me. I couldn't even get my elbows free as I'ved said. He just had me and I was stuck, so... I used my knuckles, I couldn't figure what else to do! Ha! It will take time like you said. Thanks.
  11. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    We're taught the same thing. Keeping your arms in gives you some space to breathe and keeps you from getting armbarred. But... you have to move your arms at some point. Bridging up strong should cause the top guy to either sit up some... maybe on one knee, which creates space to hip escape/shrimp. Or it will cause them to put their hands out on the ground above your head. When they're in the air, in that split second after you've bridge, you'll have time to shrimp/hip escape. Or once they've planted their hands on the ground by your head, you can trap an arm (and the leg) and upa to the side.

    Another escape when keeping your hands in tight is to bridge up strong, and when they're at their highest, move your hands down to their hips and hold them there while you bring your legs inside to butterfly guard. The key is to bridge up high enough so that you can hold them up without lifting them with your arms so you don't have to benchpress them.
    Neither do I, but there's a hell of a lot I don't know. Bridging out (the upa escape) was the first one I was taught.
    Good luck.
  12. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

  13. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    If someone has the mount on you and you need to reverse that... and trust me... you need to reverse that... then one method that I have good luck with is this...

    1) pin one of their arms... by bringing their elbow into your center.
    example: they're in mount... shove their left elbow into your center

    2) use your right leg and bring it over their left leg... you want to trap that leg so that you can roll them in that direction... everything is to your right

    3) once you have your ankle trapping their leg (which will be bent as they're sitting on you in the mount.. so you should be able to get your ankle pretty much on theirs) you need to explosively buck roll and reach with your left hand over in the direction of your right shoulder. Driving up with your ass and legs.

    You've trapped and arm and a leg... so they can't post or tripod to defend against your sweeping motion. If you don't trap that arm... the just post an arm and you have nothing. If you don't trap the leg... they can easily post a leg and you still have nothing.

    That may not be the best explanation... but check this technqiue out... it's worked great for me against bigger guys in mount - in my case I weigh about 83kg and roll with a guy who is 110 kg. So if it works for me in that case it'll work for you.
  14. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Really? I find that one much easier to escape than the regular version.
  15. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Very nice, thank you! Being from a "striking" background, I'm used to executing combinations just boom, boom, boom, you know? I'm learning with BJJ it's quite a different fight--you have to first do A, then B, then C, THEN D--you just don't "boom boom" to D. Very alien, but I'm loving it! I really believe in it, and if I can get half as good as the people around me, I'll feel I've done well.
  16. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Do you use the backdoor escape, or something else?

    flashlock - yeah, comboing and setups are crucial. Get the individual bits down before you start chaining em tho ;)
  17. fanatical

    fanatical Cool crow

    That's unusual. What kind of escapes to you use against a high mount?
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Coming from a striking background you'll understand that if you're knuckling his ribs then he can knuckle your face.
    Basically that's what the mount is for. Punching people in the face.
    The Upa works well here as you will be tying up one of his arms which means one less to hit you with.

    One thing I always try to stress is that movement is good.
    If you buck he can't hit with conviction (as he'll be regaining his base all the time).
    If you buck it creates space. Space is your friend.
    If you buck he might make a mistake you can use.

    By that I don't mean thrash about and gas out but that the intelligent application of movement (or prevention of movement) is what ground fighting is all about. Without movement you're a sitting duck.
  19. Stevebjj

    Stevebjj Grappling Dummy

    Can anyone help me out with why he might have been told to not move his arms at all? I really don't see how you can reverse mount without your arms.
  20. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    The most useful mount escape I know. I'll pick one side and use it:

    Step 1: Place your left elbow inside your opponents right knee.

    Step 2: Rotate your hips to the left, so that your left leg is on the ground, lying essentially straight.

    Step 3: With your right leg, reach over and hook your opponents right ankle, with your right foot/ankle, and pull it up and over your left leg.

    Once in that position, pull your left knee up to your body (this is why you have your left elbow inside your opponents knee), you will just about be in the half guard, so establish a strong half guard and insert half-guard

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