More than 5 Sohn Ppae Ki?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by coc716, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    Yes I know that, but I know there are new testing sheets... I've seen them. I just don't think everything's been updated yet, which actually surprises me. Especially that the official ksw.com website hasn't been updated.

    I dunno. I just study the art and follow along. I don't do administrative work. :)
     
  2. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    No problem. I just misunderstood but JSun helped me see the light!

    So you've got the "standard 5" and then 3 more.

    Yup. I understand. Good stuff.

    Yes I know what you mean. That's actually good and due to reading about this previously on MAP I've been trying to make a habit doing this. Sometimes "right" and "left" are appropriate (e.g. offensive stance is left foot forward), other times it's better to say things like "same side" or "opposite side" or "front" or "back". It's a good habit I'm working to adopt.

    Thanx for the clarification.
     
  3. IBelieved

    IBelieved Valued Member

    It's been so very long, but I dimly remember at least six of them, perhaps as many as 8. I originally learned Kuk Sool under an old curriculum long since abandoned; the forms were different, the techniques were different... mostly in small ways, different endings or different numbering schemes. When I began teaching I scrapped all of that and practiced only by-the-book Kuk Sool because, well, it was easier on me and the students. So, no, I no longer remember the details of the old ways well enough to explain them anymore. But there are still pockets where the schools do not teach exactly to the current curriculum (Venezuela particularly jumps to mind) or where the teachers are old enough to remember the old ways and are are willing to teach them.

    Personally, I don't think that rigid adherence to anything works that well. Although the current curriculum is easy to convey, I see value in occasionally straying from it in order to bring new understandings to a particular movement, understandings that might not otherwise come until much later.
     
  4. TXKukSoolBB

    TXKukSoolBB Valued Member

    All one has to do is judge at a tournament. You will see all kinds of different (adaptations) in hyung, techinques, & weapons. It is never a problem...as long as the general technique etc... is not changed. Actually...I think that is very cool. I have picked things up from other schools from time to time. Also, while at a tournament...not knowing this particular person...I pegged their school by a certain application of a technique. I appreciate the different perspectives I get from other KSW'ers by training with them...and viewing their posts here. As as visiting KJN once told me...the textbook is for reference...your instructor is for instruction. Go with what your instructor has taught you! :)
     
  5. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    I've been able to do that too... you can see signatures, and it's pretty neat.

    Very true tho, it's about what your instructor teaches you. Heck, sometimes different instructors at your school teach you things slightly differently. That can be nice because you can gain a deeper understanding into the technique by having those slightly different perspectives.
     
  6. kswgreenman

    kswgreenman New Member

    Indeed, and I wouldn't dream of suggesting that he's neglected to teach something :)

    As I said, it's rather more likely that they were covered in the introductory session - the club's zeroth lesson, as it were - and that he couldn't reasonably be expected to distinguish in the first session proper between those that had been at the demo-intro-lesson and those that hadn't. As it was we weren't saying anything because we didn't know they existed until getting our textbook some appreciable time later...
     
  7. Grippereeno

    Grippereeno New Member

    Im with greenman... i have only been shown this set of techniques once or twice and at the moment i couldnt perform them if required to and im taking my second national black belt test in june .. not sure why maybe because similar perhaps more effective techniques are shown in other sets...
     
  8. KSW_Martley

    KSW_Martley Valued Member

    That's interesting, because as you know my instructor trains under KJN John Watson doesn't he? We've done Sohn Ppae Ki in class alot more times than once or twice by PSBN. Maybe its probably just that PSBN Chris Clews may place more emphasis on being able to know and do it effectively more than Master Waston does.
     
  9. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Ha Ha grip, i'm going to come sit on your testing panel and fail you now lol You sure you haven't just missed those lessons ;) As you know i rarely get the pleasure of training with master JW but on every occassion he shows me something new with techniques. He may not spend as much time teaching them as a set????? I wouldn't know, but everytime he teaches a technique he teaches the basic principles that i believe that this set are meant to teach the beginner to kuk sool. And i can honestly say his techniques don't seem to suffer. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D I do find it a little worrying that you couldn't recall them as a set though. I think you've been spending too much time doing research for I Don't Cares operation mate lol Have a fantastic xmas and i'll catch you in June if not before. Hell i may get mad one weekend and come for a visit hehe Give my regards to the class and wish them all a happy christmas from me. :) Oh yeah take care of our flag for us :D
     
  10. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    the main reason spk don't get taught (and i'm guilty of this at my own school too) is time. it's very hard to teach and get your students to understand the testing sylibus, as well as inproving their fitness, flexibillity/agility and kicking and punching in a 1 hour class. trying to fit spk into this as well can be difficult, especialy as its not on the testing sheets. if your straped for time something has to give.
     
  11. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    Good point. That might be why it's not taught all that often, because it's not on the testing sheets.

    But given this discussion, do you think you might change your stance on this and try to add them in in some way?
     
  12. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    i do teach them in my school, but sometimes i just don't have the time. genrally i try and teach them at the start to the white belts, and if theres time i will also through it in a grading, but time is the issue. everyone of my students will learn it at one point, just some at the start and some a bit later.
     
  13. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    Oh ok, cool. :cool:
     
  14. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    Just to add my two cents:

    Back in the dark ages when first learnt this set there was more than 5 techniques. I can't remember if there was 8 or maybe even more. There was escapes from 'same hand' grabs, 'cross hand' grabs and both hands. Then it changed to 5 techniques some years later.

    It's a funny little set really. It does teach you the basics of wrist escapes which sets you up for Sohn Mok Soo but it doesn't have much to do with Ki Bon Soo. Nobody seems to think of it as a 'proper set'.
     
  15. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    i don't run my own school but whenever i teach new students i always go through spk first before going on to ki bohn soo's and whenever i review their techniques i will ask them to quickly run through them before showing me kbs.

    maybe because this is how i was taught by my first instructor.

    :)
     
  16. Grippereeno

    Grippereeno New Member

    Ha ha Monkster... Me miss a class your mind must be playing tricks on you...Ill pass on your regards but as far as lookin after YOUR flag goes im not so sure, we will be back next year to defend and defend hard we will.. To Martley One of the times i practiced SPK was actually during a class your instructor was covering for mine. Im not sure on KJN Watson's reason for not doing SPK in more detail but i can speak from regular expirience that his techniques and other high ranking students he has taught at our club definetly do not suffer because of it. One possible reason may be as ive already mentioned similar more effective/painfull techniques in the curriculum. I reckon just stop people grabbin your wrist in the first place and theres no need to be shown a set of 5 escapes.... but hey, Guess we do things a little different here.
     
  17. ember

    ember Valued Member

    I have only been taught 5 Sohn Pae Ki. I have also been taught that the elbow strike on #1 is additional detail taught later, and I gather that some people may not get that additional detail. A lot depends on the student.

    We test SPK every regular test. I think some of the testing forms now say Ki Bohn Soo 1-5 for yellow stripe, but we regularly cross that off and test/write SPK instead.

    I don't always get asked SPK in black belt testing.

    I have also heard about a number 6 by one of my peers, as the double wrist grab, but never been officially taught it.

    Since our school does forms (& sparring) on one class night, and techniques on another, and there are separate classes for beginners - intermediate- and advanced, the beginner classes alway start with SPK. At the intermediate level, we try to too, but as students get to red belt & brown stripe it's a lot tougher to get through everything.

    By the advanced classes, though, we're more likely to start and work on the more recent sets instead of the basics. I'm usually lucky to get down to Too Ki at this point. That's why helping out with the other classes is so important. It helps to keep the *full* curriculum fresh in the mind.
     
  18. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    I was able to talk with my SBN briefly tonight about why we don't regularly teach and work on Sohn Ppae Ki at my school.

    He said it's not the best set to teach a new student. It's a subtle set, and a brand new student (especially one with no previous martial arts experience) probably won't get it. Plus, Ki Bohn Soo is a good set to start with because there's action. It's good for a new student because it helps them get into it, it helps to draw them in, get them and keep them excited. I can see that, and I think he has very good points. I mean, when I finally learned the 5 techniques, I could appreciate them because of what I already knew about things like thumb being the weakest point, angles, circles, and so on. I could see that, if that was the first thing I was taught, it'd just leave me confused and bored. :)

    My SBN thought it'd be better to bring up Sohn Ppae Ki at least after Ki Bohn Soo. So, perhaps no sooner than yellow belt level.

    And since I had raised the issue, he agreed we haven't been teaching it much and perhaps that should change. So, that'll be nice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2006
  19. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Maybe hwarang_cl would like to expand on this?
     
  20. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin


    Why me ??

    #9 was a throat choke/ front collar grab- you put your right arm down between the attackers arms and rotated your right arm clockwise and push the attackers right arm with both of yours

    #10 was a thraot choke / front collar grab- your preformed a double soo do to the attackers elbows to collapse them and then did something like KBS #10

    #11 was also a choke/front collar grab - you preformed an arm bar/chicken wing with your elbow, sort of like wah ki #12.

    I can't remember #12 SPK, though I want to say it was a rear choking attack.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2006

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