More Krav Maga ... IKMF vs. IKMA

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Sandy, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

  2. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    go IKMF
    i have met and trained with eyal

    btw.... anyone claiming "top student" is a liar.... the former top students came and went like any other school over imi's life. it's drivel ...

    try both schools and decide which instructor is better suited to your style
    then go with that... if even... run with eyal's org... its the wingate (sports science) org and is more reputable
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2007
  3. kravluv

    kravluv Banned Banned

    Ran Nakash

    The stories of who was Imi's " Top Student" are irrelevant and nothing more then marketing gimics.

    Your best bet is to go with who ever teaches the people who actually use krav maga on a daily basis in order to stay alive.

    I heard that Ran Nakash will soon be teaching the private sector.

    He is the Chief commander and head instructor of the Israeli Defense Forces Krav Maga instructional Division. Learning from a guy like that is much better then learning from someone claiming to be Imi's "Top Student", due to the fact that he is at the forefront of krav maga- constantly updating, improving and learning from real life situations on the battle field. Some of these so called " top Students" do nothing but teach soccer moms in Los Angeles. check him out... www.rannakash.com
     
  4. OttawaLoneWolf

    OttawaLoneWolf Valued Member

    they are all Imi's Krav Maga ! even Darren Levin 's Krav Maga is Imi's Krav Maga ( long story and probably will start a board war if we get too into this )

    the situation is more like after Imi's death, there were dispute, but they are all Imi's Krav Maga. Moni Izyk's Commando Krav Maga is different.

    One thing you have to understand; Israelis have very little class or generation gap between masters and students.

    When I was in IKMF school in Netanya Israel. I see students argued with Director of Krav Maga Avi Moyal on new rifle drill. Unlike other martial arts, if you don't think this move is gona work. Argued with ur instructor. it is their job to prove that the move is going to work.

    I think that's why Krav Maga is such awsome martial art. Nothing is proven until it actually put into test.
     
  5. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

    Hi there

    What is Moni's Commando Krav Maga then? My Krav Maga class has just closed down, but there is a Commando KM class nearby. What should I expect? Is it any good? (To be honest, I was put off by the shortness of the instructor training for CKM.)

    Cheers
     
  6. OttawaLoneWolf

    OttawaLoneWolf Valued Member


    Hey ! Sandy ! I really can't tell u but Commando KM is not based on Imi's KM. Probably from Moni's own system.

    The word Krav Maga is just like the word Kung Fu or boxing. It should never be register.

    so I guess there is Imi's KM and Monit's KM.
     
  7. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

    Hi again,

    Interesting. I've just relooked at Moni's Commando Krav Maga web site, which states that his CKM is what's taught to the Lotar. (i.e. the "civilian" Krav Maga isn't what's taught to the elite military units.) However ...

    ... I'm just back from a week's IKMF krav course in Israel. Whilst we were training in the civilian part of the Wingate Institute, there was a military instructors' course going on in the adjacent military part of the Institute. The military instructors were doing the same stuff. I know they get a few extra techniques that aren't taught to civilians, but their Krav Maga was essentially our Krav Maga. Also ...

    ... CKM claims to be what's taught to the Lotar, etc. However, I met a Krav instructor at the Lotar school. He was trained by Eyal, not Moni.

    I don't doubt Moni's background, but I can't help wondering whether the claim that CKM is somehow special is a load of hype.

    The CKM class near me differs from what I was taught, and observed, in Israel. However challenging and intensive, I guess the CKM instructor course is way too short for instructors to remember things properly (or CKM is over-hyped).

    I'd be interested in others' experiences and opinions.
     
  8. OttawaLoneWolf

    OttawaLoneWolf Valued Member


    Sandy ! you lucky son of gun !!

    I wish I can go back and do nothing and trian , who was ur instructor ? I might know him
     
  9. Jester

    Jester I elbow, therefore I am.

    Quick question on this old thread. Don't want to start a flame war but how many Krav Maga orgs are based out of Wingate anyway?

    Jester.
     
  10. Krav Maga Brist

    Krav Maga Brist Valued Member

    Do doubt monis background !

    Hi Sandy, re your post quoted below.

    You are in a fortunate position. You have been to Wingate - seen the real thing - both military and civillian. Had you asked any instructors about Commando Krav maga - they would either never have heard of it (its not taught in the israeli military inspite of aiziks claims) or laughed as they knew of aizik and his reputation.

    The whole CKM thing is aimed at civilian 'military wannabes' hence the cammo kit, paramilitary names and marketing. Its quite well known that Aizik was really a fitness instructor - not in the elite forces so DO DOUBT his claims.

    Why is this important? After all he is not the first martial artist to make grand claims for himself or his system. The reason its important is that people chose krav maga as its proven. Aizik is inventing techniques and claiming they were tested and used by the special forces. One of his instructors emailed this to me,

    former commando krav instructor quote
    "The defence against a downward “ice-pick” style knife stab had changed considerably from the defence that I had learned 1 year previously on my Level 1/2 CKM instructor course. Moni Aizik told me that he had been thinking about this situation on the plane over to the UK and had made up the technique actually on the plane. Later on in the same course I learned that Moni had been talking to other students on the course about the origins of the technique and had told them that he had been developing it Israeli Special Forces people for the previous 6 months"

    Moni is claiming these are reliable, proven techniques tested by elite forces yet in we find out later he just made them up. Would you put your faith in such a man. Look here - I wrote an article based on correspondance with people from all over the world who had trained with Moni see Commando Krav Maga

    You can also see the Advertising standards judgement on aizik and his special forces claim here

    In short I would stay well away. On that note I have noticed several of his ex instructors have left and are claiming to be trained bt a krav maga organisation and dropping the commando bit. This is not good as these guys are not Krav maga instructors by any stretch of the imagination.

    To put it in perspective - if i train in CKM up to level 4 i can claim to be a senior CKM Instructor. This would take only 9 days. In the IKMF this is the exact length of the 1st 3rd of the basic civilian krav maga instructor course.

    This summarises the different standards quite nicely - senior ckm instructor equates to a third of a junior krav maga instructor.

     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  11. progdan

    progdan Valued Member

    I'm in IKMF, Eyal Yanilov helped Imi 'write the book' if you like (literally), and was Imi's selection to take over as director of IKMF. My instructor is the director for Australia/New Zealand under Eyal as part of the IKMF, and seems the most authentic, though part of the appeal of KM is that it is very adaptable to your own situation.
     
  12. Krav Maga Brist

    Krav Maga Brist Valued Member

    I did a fair amount of research on Moni Aizik and Commando Krav Maga. I had contacts in Israel and what came back put me off. Eventually I wrote an article about it as I was so disgusted with Aizik and his claims anyway its here -Commando Krav Maga Link
     
  13. progdan

    progdan Valued Member

    That's really interesting, cheers for sharing that. I'd only really heard of CKM from the many internet ads for their instructor courses, and did suspect as it sounded pretty sus...

    But that's just incredible! I'm surprised the IKMF and IDF don't jump on him more as he's pretty much tarnishing their high standard of combat and defense because of the apparent (false) association...
     
  14. ryoshi

    ryoshi Valued Member

  15. kamil IKMA

    kamil IKMA New Member

    IKMF vs IKMA ...
    There is a big difference between IKMF and IKMA...
    In IKMA We teaching fighting - not only self defence. We have some unique techniques like retzev, ground fighting, shooting etc..
    For more info check our website:http://www.ikma-uk.com
     
  16. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

    Hi kamil,

    I see this thread has run for a long time! IKMF also teaches retzev, ground fighting, etc. It all depends on your grade, what courses you do and where you train.

    What's IKMA? Surely not another new krav organisation? Krav Maga does seem to be fracturing rapidly into endless organisations ...
     
  17. kamil IKMA

    kamil IKMA New Member

    Hello Sandy
    firstly - Israeli Krav Maga Association is the first organisation in the world. Krav maga founder Imi Lichtenfeld established the non-profit IKMA on October 22, 1978 to promote krav maga throughout the world.
    Second - I was in IKMF and believe me - I was high grade (trained with T.Adamczyk, Eyal Yanilov, Amnon Darsa) and what can I say? - Is really big difference between IKMF and original Israeli Krav Maga.
    Retzev - this is the unique IKMA technique develop by Grand Master Haim Gidon (sorry, but I can't believe that IKMF teaching retzev - something they have no idea about)
    The highest rank (10th dan) and title of Grand Master holding only one person in the world in every martial arts. Right now, this title and 10th Dan degree has Grand Master Haim Gidon - President of Israeli Krav Maga Association.
    On 01.01.1996 Imi Lichtenfeld gave last time master degree in IKMA. He gave 8th Dan to Haim Gidon. Having regard for the fact that many instructors using false diplomas, Imi Lichtenfeld on March 1996 confirmed, in the presence of notary public, the highest degrees granted from 1978 to all instructors (including instructors who left IKMA and create theirs organizations) - Eyal Yanilov is one of them.
    No worries - We have proofs - orginal documents, videos etc. We publish everything on our website - http://www.ikma-uk.com - full website avilable on 18.08.2010
     
  18. Jack Dusty

    Jack Dusty New Member

    I find it all confusing. Everyone seems to slag each other off but, their systems don't seem to be questioned. Does that mean that even if Moni from CKM has been discredited that his system is still a good and viable one????
     
  19. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

    Sadly, this is martial arts in general :(
    (Just look at all the Wing Chun vs. Ving Tsun, all the disagreements about the "real" JKD, etc.)

    I recommend trying a school and finding out if you like it. Even within the same style, instructors vary considerably.

    Personally, I tried a few CKM classes, but decided it wasn't for me. You may be different.
     
  20. OttawaLoneWolf

    OttawaLoneWolf Valued Member

    I am an IKMF instructor. I have to say go with whatever instructor u are most comfortable with. I have lots respect to IKMA and I also seen good KMWW instructors or even CKM instructors. I seen " not so good " IKMF instructor as well. Sometimes you really need lucks to find an instructor you like.
     

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