Moores Shou' Shu'

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Shou Tu, Jan 31, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

    THREE SKY Valued Member

    I recently attended a gathering of Shou Shu students and instructors that numbered well over 400 people. At least 70 of these persons were black belts. Some of these persons have been in the Moore's system for over 20 years and longer. They do not live in their mothers garage, nor do they play Dungeons & Dragons. They do have the self confidence & skills to kick the living daylights out of self opinionated mouthy jerks (and multiple self opinionated mouthy jerks) who would be ignorant enough to threaten them and insult them (Sad Assed? Jeez who's acting like a 10 year old?) )and certainly would relish in the opportunity to have the chance to put into motion
    "Cobra, Mongoose and whatever other little Jigs " you may think are a part of some kind of game. Games are for hobbyists. Shou Shu is an effective combat art. At no time have any Shou Shu folks bashed, flamed or dishonored anyon else's style, teachings or studies.

    Okay, let's get past the "tournament" challenge mentality already. Once again, our schools are open to the public and any self opinionated mouthy jerk(s) who are bold enough to walk in and "challenge" any of our Shifus. It would be much more appropriate to just accept an invitation to come in and sample some of what we are so "delusional" about. Try it, you may like it!

    Hey Shou Shu is obviously a place that we can engage in politely and respectfully and will probably be moderated in such a way that personal insults and disrespect will not be tolerated, as it should not be on MAP. I've seen some of the posts on those other forums and I like to think that MAP can control the pubescent behaviors of 'relatively' mature adult(s) without anyone taking personal attacks on Andy or Yoda, just because they are more emotionaly evolved than some of the other "experienced" MAs that cannot even conduct a civil debate and have to resort to being punsters and self rightous individuals who "We speak for all who do not agree with you so we shall bash and set afire that which we know nothing of" . Of course none of you nay sayers has ever seen a group of Shou Shu Black belts enagaged in any of the fighting sets, beating the heck out of eachother. Tag? get a grip will ya?

    You wanna make fun of the Cobra? Foolish, foolish. You wanna criiticize the Tiger? You can get ripped to shreds (here kity, kitty) You've never seen the stuff, so that makes you an expert?

    Unless these self opinionated,mouthy, rude jerks (that is how they come across, isn't it? I mean just read their posts) can at last humble themselves to converse and engage in a meaningful way, what good is a forum that can only proliferate hostility and name calling (I'm guilty as charged).

    By the way, I am 46 years old, have paid my own bills for the last 30 years and have traveled all over the world and the USA. I have studied Choy Lay Fut, Hsing Yi, Pak Kua, TKD and even boxed and wrestled .The Moores school that I attend has college professors, doctors, lawyers, police officers, military personel, accountants, college students and professional beer drinkers. None of them are delusional, but some are REAL BAD AZZES. Come on in and meet some of them! Our Shifus will be more than glad to show you how wrong you REALLY ARE.
    Last edited: May 22, 2004
  2. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Listen guys its getting a little out of hand and in trying to keep it civil - why would you knock BJJ as its a very tested system with excellent results.

    Many on here find this art a little odd with the belief u have with it. Know I know my stuff works pretty well and I have sadly used it at times against multiple opponents. However I can and am willing enough to discuss any technique I mention, its just the reluctance to discuss things on your side and saying were all a bunch of BAD ASS fighter etc just discredits your arguement as the point of a forum it to discuss arts not to shout we are great and the best. There are posts on here to that effect and this is what has attracted the attention to your art.
  3. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    I would gladly take on anyone in the demo but I am sure they are not the cream of your style and when I am next in the states I will check your art out and take up that offer. But sadly saying this on a forum does not help much but its your words and supporting info that ads weight to your discussions and views - so we are back to the techniques of the Cobra what are they as I am keen to know?
  4. Shou Tu

    Shou Tu New Member

    If we knew what the cobra form was we would be able to explain it to you.
    But we dont.

    Please remember you said that you would take on anyone in the demo clips.

    by the way i wasnt knocking BJJ i was simply saying that the only challenge HH posted and now he is added to a conversation he wasnt involved in to begin with like he is a hero.

    Honestly Sonshu you think that based on the demo clips you could handle a first or even a second with ease???? im not asking this question in a Smart sense im asking it in a serious sense.
    Last edited: May 22, 2004
  5. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    If the demo shows what attacks you guys train against then I reckon I'd be in with a chance against a lot of the demonstrators. Most of the attacks were seriously telegraphed and done at probably less than half speed. I didn't see a single commited attack defended against, so I'm going to remain sceptical about your training methods. There's no point in learning all these fancy blocks and strikes at high speed if you train against attacks like that, and as this was a demonstration from some high-level exponents of your art I'm assuming they're showing us the defences as they would normally train them. If you actually do train against full speed attacks coming in, then your system probably works about as well as any other system (NB: not better than. I have seen no evidence to suggest that your system is any better than what I train in) but given the evidence available so far (ie the clips) I will remain doubtful until I have good reason to believe you.

    The real reason you guys are getting so much flak is this insistance that what you are doing is superior. It really isn't, and the sooner you learn that the better off you'll all be. This may be a generalisation, some of the shou shou guys at least accept that other systems may be as good as theirs, but the majority of students who post here seem to have a serious superiority complex, and it's really starting to get somewhat annoying.
  6. animalguy

    animalguy Valued Member

    so what you are saying is, that you feel based on the video clips of demonstrations meant for entertainment and what you think we do, you feel your training is superior to those individuals in the vids. is that right?
    well who has the offensive complex now?
    are we supposed to take your word for it?
    where might i ask is the proof backing up this claim?
    how can you say that, have you proven it in mma?

    seriously i don't care if the quotes/facts/whatever are unbelievable to most they are obviously believed by some and if you believe it cool. this forum has offered us a way to get out our thoughts and yours and it is cool. will it change the way either side thinks, no. will it make it easier for either side to train in whatever they want to train in, again no. but it let's both sides enjoy doing something relaxing in front of a computer screen while waiting for their favorite porn clips to download and that's cool.
    gotta go it just finished downloading.
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter


    I accept that sentiment, but the video clips are currently all we have to see about SS. That is why responses have been "lukewarm" to say the least.

    If I am a BJJ stylist I can show combative clips as well as forms. That will enable an observer to gain an insight and understanding. The SS clips which were supposed to give a fair representation of the art were not that inspiring. If they are only meant for "fun" fine - but that is certainly not how they were initially presented to us.

    I still remain open to education and enlightenment regarding SS, but as I have said before I do not think it will happen on these forums
  8. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    A couple of Pages back there was a Vociferous denial of Ninesteps assertion that 'Martial arts are hobbies' (and that it was Mindset that was all important).

    And yet here you are defending your video clips by stating that they are for 'Entertainment' Purposes only....
  9. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Well the people on the demo I do not feel I would have too much trouble with. Based on the info shown because I know in other arts demo's I have seen I felt the quality was not anything to write home about.

    Do you think I could not then?
  10. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Whether the clips were for entertainment or not should have no bearing on the attacking. You can do "fun" techniques against full speed attacks, why bother recording defences against poor attacks then putting them online. The only time we attack slowly in training is to break the technique down to it's component level, where we can analyse the movements slowly. Then we tend to do slow defences against slow attacks. Against fast attacks the defences are done faster to better utilise the momentum of the attack. Doing fast defences against poor attacks is a wast of time, as you will inevitably learn bad blocking and evasion.

    I believe the term is "superiority complex". I have not been offensive, nor do I intend to be. And if you read through my post again you will see that I said:

    I didn't claim superiority. However, if those clips are a good representation of how you claim then I shall do so now: if you train against slow, telegraphed attacks, my system is superior.

    My proof for what? I've identified a flaw in your training method over mine. I'm not making outrageous claims of being in the best martial arts in the world, I have nothing I need to prove. I'm perfectly happy to outline how my system trains if you wish, though it would be better confined to either chat or the general discussion/jujutsu forums.

    As long as you're happy with what you're learning, that's fine. What gets me is the insistance from a number of shou shouers here that their system is superior to just about everything out there. As long as you accept that other arts do just as well as your own then you will get along fine here.

    THREE SKY Valued Member

    I agree with you 100% Hannibal. Those "demo" clips from that 2001 camp, do IMHO really suck if they were intended to make any kind of impression . I understand why negative opinions can be expressed, IF BASED SOLELY on those clips. At some point I am sure that there will be a better "representation" of some credible stuff for all of our viewing enjoyment (and criticism).

    Also, aside from the Shifus and Shun Shifus that have posted, most of us lower ranks do not have the knowldege or expertise to elaborate on the more complex principles of the Beast elements, since we are only being introduced to them gradually over time. I have made comparisons in the past that are more my impressions, I myself have never stated anything as fact. I had mentioned a strong similarity to a Shaolin animal based type of art that has been "systemized" with Kempo attributes only for the initial learning experience(s). There are also certain kinestetic aspects which make Shou Shu somewhat different than other MAs that I have been exposed too.

    You are rational and open minded and for this I commend you (you are deserving of mutual respect becuase you are honorable). You are also correct about this forum. The same old ashes get stirred up and the embers flame once more (from all of us). I appreciate all forms of Martial Arts. Whether they are sport based, survival based, and even spiritually based.

    I do not think that Shou Shu is the "Ultimate" MA for everyone. I do think, however, that based on my age, body type, physical capabilities, even though Shou Shu is quite strenuous and demanding, IT WORKS FOR ME AND I LIKE IT! I also like boxing, but the Marquis of Queensbury Rules just don't work on the street.Hey, I get my AZZ kicked every Friday nite at sparring group when I try to box. I like to wrestle, but I know that if I end up on the ground a Ju Juistu guy is gonna own me. Arm bars , triangles, chokes and Guilletenes are awesome. I train so that I never want to have to "kiss the pavement".
    That does not mean that I will never end up on the ground, but before that could (or might) happen, I have some "tactics" availalble to me that could (or might) prevent me from being vulnerable. It also does not mean that I am better than any other martial artist or fighter.

    Hey, I'm only a Blue belt. I do know the time I do get to Black I will have the "attitude" that most experienced Shou Shou Shifus express in their confidence in not only our art, but in themselves as well.

    Do we not all have confidence in that at which we train so hard in? Are there not certain aspects in all different styles that we like to perhaps "extract" some technique or application from? Look at what has happened with JKD over the last 30 years. Hybrid Arts are popping up every day, but they all still have to have their origins from the more traditional teachings.

    I've conceded, expressed my point of view, agreed with (some, not most) criticism, but I still stand behind what I know is factual from what I have been able to see, firsthand, up close and personal as it relates to the effectiveness (I'm not saying superiorty) of Shou Shu.
    Last edited: May 22, 2004
  12. maverickv1x

    maverickv1x New Member

    I've seen their skills in a setting that was not meant for fun and games. You'd have plenty of trouble with them, my friend. I've never met a black belt that didn't hit like a small office building.

    In a sense, though, I'm glad we're underestimated by you. But I'm slightly miffed that someone presented these clips to you as the end-all-be-all representation of Shou Shu. I bet you those Shifus are as well.
  13. maverickv1x

    maverickv1x New Member

    Hrm. You like using fifty dollar words. That's a nice false dichotomy you've presented here...Shifus can't entertain us sometimes without sacrificing the serious training that goes on the other 99 percent of the year? Hrm. I didn't know that.

    Martial arts can be a hobby, sure. That'll never get you to black belt in Shou Shu, though.

    Of course, this just makes me all the more annoyed that someone presented these demonstration clips as representations of Shou Shu in a combat setting, because that isn't what they are.
  14. maverickv1x

    maverickv1x New Member

    I would agree that it is getting somewhat annoying about the superiority complex.

    I'd also agree it is getting annoying with your Shou Shu inferiority complex. So how about we both stop? Because it's ugly, and it's ticking me off.
  15. maverickv1x

    maverickv1x New Member

    Okay, guys, I'm not going to be lurking around Martial Arts Planet anymore, so if you'd like to get in touch with me, e-mail me. is the address. It's been....interesting.
  16. maverickv1x

    maverickv1x New Member

    Kay, guys. I'm not going to lurk around Martial Arts Planet anymore and throw my two cents in, so if you'd like to get in touch with me, the e-mail is, okay?

    It's been...interesting. Talk to whoever soon. See ya!
  17. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Okay in Plain English then. It looks like Bad Kempo.

    And yes, I understand that they are just demo clips, fair enough. But 'people' will make judgements based upon what you present them with, so present something better, if you are inclined to do so.

    I haven't up until now, commented upon the Videos, just about the Multiple Attacker scenarios where SS people start blabbing about how they could easily take Seven or Eight etc.

    Try going to another Forum like B'Shido and T'**g F' and saying the stuff that you (Shou Shu practitioners) regularly state on this Forum see how much short shrift you get there and then come back here and thank us for at least listening to your points and not sticking the boot in too much.

    I'm not a Martial Hobbyist either. But you guys still come across as being Deluded and 'Off with the Fairies' when it comes to all your MachoDeathKilla stuff about taking out Seven/ Eight Street punx etc. Laughable.

    I don't feel that any of you have ever experienced a real situation in your life, otherwise you'd realise the utter stupidity of your statements.

    As stated previously, all the Games of tag in the world will not save your skin, when your Tiger, Cobra, Mongoose/ Clown wears satin pants etc katas fail you.
  18. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    Nil entrance impactum rectum

    THREE SKY Valued Member


    HAVE YOU EVEN EVER CONTEMPLATED A SCENARIO WHERE YOUR LIFE IS THREATENED AND YOU JUST MIGHT HAVE TO TAKE ON MULTIPLE OPPONENTS? BETER YET HAVE YOU EVER EXPERIENCED ONE? BACK IN 1973 I ATTENDED AN ALL CHINESE JR. HIGH SCHOOL AND HAD TO DEFEND MYSELF FROM AT LEAST 10-12 Joe Boy & Wah Ching gang members ( I was a Boq Quai "white devil") I had no martial arts skills, I still survived, (almost ended up in the hospital) and then decided I needed MA for survival in San Fran's urban jungle. I also went to school in San Fran's Mission District (21st & Harrison to those of you familiar with the Bay Area) where Asians, Blacks, Filipinos and Hispanics were constantly on the rumble.I have been in quite a few of these multiple punk scenarios in my past youth, why I was even a punk myself at that time! I just wish I knew then what I know now. You don't speak for me or anyone else who can and will disagree with you. Maybe you cannot defend your sorry self from multiple opponents. You should really try to "visualize" such an event. The day may come when it might just be a reality for you or your loved ones that you may have to protect. If what you study now does not encompass such prospective reality, then it is you who is lost in "Fairie Land".

    No one in Shou Shu has claimed that they can demolish 8-10 attackers and walk away from it. But...would you rather not have the training to deal with such an event and have the confidence that if you wanted to preserve your existence, then you are empowered to face such a task if needed. That's it, it's about the empowerment...hmmm. You guys need to study something that empowers you instead of just making you fart off derogatory stuff about what we study, just because it empowers us. Yeah, I know. We are all on a power trip. I like that.

    Your "intelligent" banter emanates from your sphincter. You should not let your hair lip cloud your judgement. It is now you who is the one making the unrealistic claims, once again from things of which you know absolutely nothing about as it relates to us as individuals or what the experienced Shou Shu Shifus are not only capable of, but also have accomplished with their BAD AZZ selves. Folklore or history? Truth or BS? hmmmm...seeing is believing.

    FYI-demos are just that. I agree with all the critics (AND EVEN YOU!) about those "funky" clips. There are better examples, I have seen them. There is some new footage from last camp that is most impressive and would offer some credible sampling of Cobra and Tiger, and how these Beasts can be used in the multiple opponent environment, but I think it is best that we selfishly keep it to ourselves, we wouldn't want to bore anyone with deluded, experienced, "Off with the Fairies" black belts who have been studying for years & years. Besides, I'm really getting off on the fact that everyone thinks our stuff is "Shrouded in Mystery" and that "Dungeons & Dragons" and video games are what our art is comprised of. You know, no one has ever responded to any of my earlier posts about some of the credible Masters that I once studied under in the 1970's albeit but for a short time (Lai Hung, Kou Lien Ying) I have been exposed to ancient traditional arts with deep roots. I am no expert and certainly no super stud, "MACHO DEATH KILLA" street fighter, BUT...I can introduce you to a few Shou Shu veterans that are, but you'll need to come to California for your change of perspective. Otherwise keep it civil and respectful. Remember, no matter what you study or believe, it's all about HONOR & RESPECT. LITTLE OF WHICH SEEMS TO BE DISPLAYED ON THIS THREAD (Except for the few mature folks who obviously can agrre to disagree, but still maintain composure and open mindedness)

  20. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    "Mutual respect???"


    Does the word PRAXIS mean anything to you?

    Enjoy 3 days in the sin bin for blatant personal attacks.

    If you don't come back - your loss.

    Thread closed
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page