Modern TMAs & Ninjutsu

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Sandninjer, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Me too, shouldn't be allowed in the same thread.
     
  2. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I think you are becoming overly semantic.
     
  3. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    I agree...whenever I see the "Sand" in the name my brain shuts down.
     
  4. Sandstorm

    Sandstorm Valued Member

    You have me and Sandninjer mixed up I think Peter. I have been doing martial arts since 1979 and the Takamatsu related arts since 1986. I am not a Genbukan member or bujinkan member, LOL, its ok, I am still not done with my morning coffee either ha ha
     
  5. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    I obviously did and I apologize.
     
  6. Sandstorm

    Sandstorm Valued Member

    yeah matt, you know, it was just menkyo kaiden in general and probably should be on another thread, I wasnt specifically referencing Ishizuka, Kacem or his comments. It just hit me in the head LOL
     
  7. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    No, Matt, I'm just recognizing what Menkyo Kaiden actually is. It is constantly applied to things it doesn't refer to, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Bujinkan whatsoever, or the skill, experience, ability, knowledge, or similar as a Bujinkan instructor. Every single time I have seen Menkyo Kaiden be invoked, it's been done by someone who doesn't understand what Menkyo Kaiden is, what it applies to, or why it's actually completely irrelevant.
     
  8. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Does Menkyo Kaiden have anything to do with the Bujinkan? That can be argued. However, it does matter if you mention the (which the Bujinkan has something to do with). It's funny how people with little or no clue about the entire curriculum of the schools encompasses can know so much about the traditional grades of the schools and what they mean. Wonder who told them? It's kind I like dismissing Kuden because their teacher(foreign naturally) told them that all that Japanese mumbo jumbo is all Greek to them. Of course since they haven't had Kuden shared with them, how do they know if it's mumbo jumbo or not?

    Is there a difference between the Menkyo Kaiden holders in any of these schools and other teachers who only have Dan ranking in the arts? If you don't think so, feel free to enjoy that belief.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  9. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Simple test, ask your teacher if he has MK in any Takumatsuden Ryu ha. If he says yes then you're likely in a good place to study, if No... YMMV
     
  10. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Frankly, Matt, that is another example. Having Menkyo Kaiden really doesn't make any difference unless the teacher is claiming to teach (and licence/rank in) the specific Ryu-ha themselves.

    So, simple test... what is it a Menkyo Kaiden in? Then, what are you being taught/ranked in? If they're not the same, then they're not the same.
     
  11. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    That's a no from you then?
     
  12. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Chris is right. If your teaching isn't teaching you the actual Ryu, then it doesn't matter what he has. Which also means that the opposite is true. So the thing would be to ask your teacher what he's teaching(assuming you don't already know). If it's a hodgepodge of different things mixed together, then having it doesn't matter(well you could still argue it does to some extent).
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  13. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Well there are two things that I disagree with.

    1. Old school Booj teachers holding any MK are going to be good places to learn booj. Even I it's not something from their MK as long as you take it with a pinch of salt, as they have a wealth of other relevant experience.
    2. I've been taught from naninani ryu by a MK holder in that ryu, when they say why it's done that way you know they are more likely to be right about that.
     
  14. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    No, Matt, it's a "that's irrelevant".

    Which again shows a lack of understanding of what Menkyo Kaiden really is.
     
  15. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

  16. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Nope, it's different. The guys who hold a MK in the booj are good teachers of the booj. Anything else is a desire to focus on the semantics of the meaning of the MK.

    Quite simple, if your teacher has one, or more, then he has Mattts seal of approval, if he doesn't, I'd have to see him move.
     
  17. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    No, they're actually unrelated, and, as an appeal to authority, fail. Holding Menkyo means nothing in terms of teaching Bujinkan. It really is simple as that. The particular holders might be great teachers, but that's got nothing to do with the Menkyo they hold, and is more to do with their time in the Bujinkan and with Hatsumi. Menkyo Kaiden, once more, when it comes to the Bujinkan, means nothing.
     
  18. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Can you give me an example of someone holding one who is not a good teacher in the booj?
     
  19. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Wrong way round, Matt. That's the point.
     
  20. Instructor_Jon

    Instructor_Jon Effectiveness First

    PA...you may just be the best doggone person on here. :hail:
     

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