MMA vs the World

OK....so its not the best title...

Anyway....my question/point of discussion is.....

With the Hype of MMA and in particular the UFC championship, which seems to herald MMA as the new "Art" for the 2000's an onwards. Will the future Martial Art generations in this world neglect the more traditional arts to go with this versitile Martial Art?.

Are we more concerned with surviving and winning than the Art?

I believe that within 30 years MMA will be the dominant style of Martial Arts in the world. I believe that the smaller , more obscure Arts will become just that...smaller and more obscure until all that remains are the McDojos and the stronger styles.

Should we be preserving our styles against the eventual amalgamation into MMA.?

Are there any arts left?

Are we just combative machines?


questions on a kipper.

 

I think you've already hobbled this discussion by asserting that mixed martial arts don't constitute "art." It almost sounds like a preview for some new star wars ripoff, with the evil empires of MMA and McDojo systematically eradicating the desperate and ragtag collection of proper arts.

I think it's possible to train according to MMA principles without sacrificing some sense of art.

But to answer the question I think you're asking, no. That isn't going to happen. Ever. People like choices. There are still plenty of people who want their arts traditional, or philosophical, or self-defense oriented, or aesthetically pleasing, or whatever. People train for all sorts of reasons. That's not going to change. And where there's demand, there's generally supply.


Stuart

 

By "Art" read Forms/Kata/Sets/Patterns etc...

thanks Stuart.

 

A style can still have "art" even if it doesn't have kata, forms, or whatever.

Look at capoeira, TKD, etc with flashy moves. Look at some of amazing things in BJJ (not the ordinary stuff)- flying armbars and other things.

 

MMA is cool, street martial arts is better... innovate people...

 

I am not sure what you say can happen but even if it does I think it would be great. I remember the times when you walked into a kwoon and there were only 12 other guys there and you knew you had earned your place there and everyone there was tough and dedicated. To tell you the truth I dont really like the whole commercialization of the arts, I used to like it better when you had to have someone bring you into the school. If kung fu or other traditional martial arts go underground again it wont necesarily be the best thing for the arts but it will certainly be the best thing for the exponents.

 

Is it just me or are most of the Traditional vs Mixed threads started by traditional stylists?

Traditional martial arts will always be around, because that is the way some people prefer to train.

What will happen is that people will realise that those traditional methods won't turn them into elite fighters.

"Tradition"

funny word it is.

Wrestling and boxing have longer histories then most traditional arts, yet they aren't considered "traditional", even BJJ is older then most of the "traditional" arts...

 

Im sorry mate but i think most MMA vs Traditional threads are started by MMA guys, including "Horse stance obsolete?" and "TMA, what went wrong" among others.
Also, BJJ is like 80 years old, I dont think that is older than most traditional martial arts.

 

Not really so. It occurs to me that most TMA vs MMA threads are started by young male MMAers in need of a girlfriend who believe "hurhur, karate is mad gay yo! Hickson 4evva!" to be a brilliant summary of the subject.

As for the question, MMA and modern styles of MA will slowly force the traditional styles off the market, starting with all the hardcore ones requiring patience and hard work to grade in, and will eventually McDojofy to some extent. I don't particularily like this development. It would be a sad MA world if armbars and thai kicks were all there was as opposed to the thousands of years of MA tradition we have now, which the MMA people are dilligently working on discarding as trash.

PS: Cybermonk, I started the TMA: What went wrong thread to debate the gross stupidity found in some aspects of TMA and not the inefficiency of TMA in general. I'm no MMAer, although I do BJJ.

 

I'd say we are pretty even on who starts that sort of thing...

Kickboxing "should" have forced karate / TKD out, but it didn't. MMA will be no different.

Tai chi does fairly well and most that do it make no claims about real fighting ability.

TMA will survive, if they can adapt.

 

martial arts movies won't let traditional martial arts die, to think so is ridiculous...

 

That horse stance one was talking about squatting it didn't start off as a TMA vs MMA debate it evolved into one And i have a gut feeling this is going to go the same way.

If we all spent as much effort in traning, as we do arguing like we do; then we would all be much better off

 

Except for those few who win full contact international comps like Dan Docherty who won the 1980 open division

In 1976 I was very raw, with only one year of Tai Chi behind me and so my defence in particular was not that well developed. That was also a particularly vicious competition because the gloves we used were like driving gloves with the fingertips cut off. In my first fight against a hard stylist from Malaysia I got two black eyes a bleeding nose, puffed lips and heavy bruising from the left hip down to the foot from Thai Boxing kicks. My left foot was so bad I couldn't get a shoe on and I had to have a tetanus shot followed by herbal mudpacks to reduce the swelling. I won the fight by the way! Four days later I stopped my next opponent as well, but lost on points the day after in the final of the Heavyweight division, to Lohandran of Malaysia and Chi Ke Chuan. He was fully fit as he'd only had to fight one contest lasting one round before the final. I felt really frustrated because I was sure I could have taken him if I'd been uninjured.


The next South East Asian Martial Arts Championships was held In Malaysia in 1980. This time we used Thai Boxing gloves. In fact the Malaysians had been training with Thai Boxers and they had a top Thai Boxing coach as one of the corner men for their fighters. This time there was a Superheavyweight Open Weight category for those over 220lbs. I weighed around 190lbs., but, against my teacher's advice, I opted to step up two weight categories to fight in this division as I figured there would be more 'face' to gain and in any case I'd be faster than my opponents. In my first the fight against Roy Pink of England and Five Ancestors, who weighed over 300lbs., I knocked him out in the first round. Then I was in the final against my old friend, Mr. Lohandran. I beat him on points in front of his home crowd in Kuala Lumpur. The only other Hong Kong boy to emerge as a champion was my fellow student, Tong Chi-kin who won the Middleweight title. After all that, I decided not to fight in competition again.

http://www.taichichuan.co.uk/information/articles/tai_chi_gladiator.html

Yuki-you are right, if only it were possible

Adam-My mistake, thought that thread had been started by an MMA guy

 

Not sure whether this has been mentioned already but surely in 300 years time MMA is going to be considered a traditional martial art isnt it?

One mans meat is anothers poison as they say. I will never do karate again but muay thai will stay a part of me forever. There will always be a demand for TMAs.

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20662

Thought that this link may be good to add to the debate.

 

As long as there are people willing to learn how to fight and defend themselves, MMA will be around. Dunno about the other styles, though. =/

PL

 

firstly, no I dont think TMA's will ever die out. there is always a market for those who are looking for more of a hobby and a way to keep fit than to actually compete. however they are taking hits and are having to adapt simply because people are walking in and discrediting katas and linework etc because of the way they see K-1 and UFC/PRIDE fighters train.

as for MMA becoming watered down- no I dont think so. the reason for this is because it is self regulating- those who cant teach, those who cant fight, get beat out. if a boxing coach cannot teach boxers he wont last long, and its exactly the same with MMA. this has kept boxing "up there" for over 2000 years.

 

I don't think TMA will die out either Which i consider a good thing personally.

 

Right ..after a few jabs about " not being a MMA"...exactly what is a MMA?....someone who cross trains ....someone who wears tight shorts and rolls on the ground.

Can i have a definition please, as i would hate to inaccurately labelled.

 

Previously, Mixed Martial Arts competition meant putting exponents of different arts in direct competition, sumo vs savate, for example, as seen in the first ever UFC bout. My understanding of modern Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) is cross-training for all ranges of combat; standing, clinch and ground. This is because, as the early events showed, no one art or range is complete - strikers get tapped by grapplers, grapplers with shoddy takedowns got whooped by strikers etc.
As there is typically cross training in different arts to cover all ranges (though quite a few fighters just go to one MMA school), I don't think TMA's will die out due to MMA, though I think we will see an increase in people cross training to cover the holes in their game. For example, quite a few kung fu exponents have been training in BJJ to learn how to survive on the ground, lots of BJJ guys take muay thai or another standup art to survive if they can't get the take down etc.
There are so many arts out there to choose from and not everyone will want to train in the same arts, which I think is beginning to show in MMA now. A year or so back, everyone was training in BJJ and MT, now people are training in boxing and wrestling or sambo/ judo and boxing (like the Pride champion Fedor Emilanenko), there's a karate guy fighting quite sucessfully in King of the Cage and if it hasn't happened already in one of the smaller organisations, I don't think it'll be long before we see a cross-trained kung fu fighter in there either.
Hope you enjoyed my little ramble there