MMA & Systema

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Samurai Jay, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    I would like to congratulate Killa_Gorillas on an impressive victory on a subject that meens nothing to me.

    There is no point asking me for facts i have the memory of gold fish plus i am computer illiterate.
  2. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    El Gringo The Australasian Dingo
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  3. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    Wouldn't being Taiwanese make him a gringo by definition? Seems like a bit of a tautology
  4. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    how about that
  5. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    You seem to be quite invested in reminding us how little you care. I'd talk to a doctor.
  6. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    so they only work on half *ssed shots then, whats the point in that:confused:

    If i can defend a proper shot a frat boy tackle is easy, if all i work on is defending a bad takedown and one day i end up fighting a decent wrestler how do you think i will do?
  7. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Wow that's a rather sweeping statement you've made there.

    Yes there's a lot of rubbish out there that class themselves as TMA but there's also some good solid arts that in fact developed to work from worst case scenario. They have waza based on gross motor movement and incorporate methods for putting the student under pressure when using them.

    They will also have an integrated approach to their syllabus so that movement, power generation, striking, tactics will all overlap regardless of if they are being used with weapons, unarmed or between transition between the two.

    I think the big thing you are missing is the context within which some of these arts were developed for.

    It's not that they work only from best case scenario it's that with some of them the scenarios they were intended for are one, two or even four hundred years in the past.

    That's why if you train in a TMA you have to know it inside out. You need to be aware of not only how something is done but why, a good art will have transferable skills and attribute development you'll just need to tweak bits here and there to make it relevant.

    One reason why cross training can be so beneficial.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  8. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Here is a dude I know from another forum mixing Systema and MMA

    [ame=""]YouTube - Stand Up Sparring with Clinch[/ame]
  9. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    Just to be the devil's advocate...

    For the sake of discussion:

    How likely is it that you will be attacked by a decent wrestler? I'd underline this point for you in particular because you're a fellow Brit and there's pretty much bugger all wrestling here. In fact, I'd go as far as to say you're unlikely to be attacked by a martial artist full stop.

    I suppose the counter to that is "why settle for mediocrity?" but I think you could argue that people who train for self-defence and don't have time to train everything to an MMA standard (i.e. the vast bulk of TMAs' clientele) should focus on straightforward counters to common street attacks, even if those attacks aren't so effective. I don't mean to suggest that untrained people can't fight as that would be extremely naive but they're unlikely to do anything overly technical, particularly in terms of grappling (isn't that what makes grappling so effective in the first place?). In my limited experience I'd say they're much more likely to rely on brute force and all-out aggression.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  10. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Just for the sake of discussion as I'm aware you are playing devils advocate...

    There are plenty of rugby players in the UK although as you know we do have wrestlers too. A decent rugby tackle doesn't look like a proper wrestlers shot but it's still going to be a well practiced and effective way of taking someone down and will not necessarily resemble a desperate clawing lunge. Rugby lads like a good fight too and most can handle themselves.

    Probably not. Most of them are too busy being paranoid and fearful, passive aggressive, fantasists who woud rather go home and dream about ripping out your clavical and beating you to death with it after an argument/altercation :hat:

    A sprawl is about as simple and straight forward as it gets if you ask me.
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    You are right there aren’t many wrestlers in the UK, but in every city you can find MMA gyms or submission wrestling clubs that do teach the correct double leg and the shot, add to this the number of guys that have played rugby or attended a judo class (so who know how to keep upright in their takedowns and will blow through you with real momentum) and I would suspect the number of people you might meet like that outnumber the amount of people you might meet trying to throw a centreline punch at you :)

    And if you don’t have the time to put into your training than what is better to train, high percentage movements that work against a lot of takedowns both good and bad (the underhook, cross face, sprawl and level change all work against good shots, bad shots, good single legs, frat boy tackles and head down charges, they are easy to learn, gross motor movements and easy to implement) or low percentage moves that only work in certain situations and which mean you also have to train other defences just in case the attacker actually knows what he is doing?

    The trouble is the vaste number of common street attacks look more like bad MMA than they do TCMA Its not about settling for mediocrity or having to reach a professional level of fighting its about training solid high percentage stuff which allow you to deal with those attacks: If i am used to dealing with good jab cross and hooks, body lockattempts and a good shot, then i can deal with wild swinging punches, head down tackles and bad clinching (which is what you see on the street) the flip side is not true, if all i train is to defend badly set up single wide swinging punches, head down running tackles and the like and i meet someone who has actually boxed, done judo or thai then i am in real trouble

    So if you are time crunched and training for the street which is better for you?
    As for the time thing well i know guys who have competed in amateur and pro MMA who only train a couple of times a week, its amazing what you can do when you strip away a loot of the bull and just train solid fundamentals
  12. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Damn you icefield. :hat:
  13. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission


    To be honest I'm still not sure I'd agree with you and Killa Gorillas about the likelihood of being attacked by a martial artist. Sure, MMA, submission wrestling and BJJ are becoming more popular, and judo is already fairly popular. I can also see how a rugby player would be a dangerous opponent (a very good friend of mine plays prop). But - call me naive - I'd argue that people who play such rough sports are a lot less likely to start a street fight than some stupid chav who wants to impress his mates by starting on an unwilling victim. I have never felt remotely intimidated in an MMA or grappling club and I've always found the guys there to be helpful. If you mean the guy who has attended "a" judo class, well, he's unlikely to be that great at taking people down yet.

    That said, I think you guys are right in pointing out that the high-percentage stuff e.g. sprawling can still be utilised, so that's sealed the deal for me.
  14. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    my post fu is strong today :)
  15. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    ok your naive...only joking i agree with you, the percentage is low but its probably higher than the percentage of people you will meet who can chain punch, throw a reverse punch or attack you with a wrist lock and guys spend years learning to defend that stuff

    with the popularity of the ultimate fighter show the number of idiots running around in UFC tops, tap out gear etc who have watched the ufc and think they can fight like their favourite fighter is growing they will try a shot / clinch on you in the night club, it will be a bad one but they will probably try it so its best to be prepared for those guys

    and like i said if i can defend a good takedown defending a bad one isnt that hard
  16. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Takedowns, Schmakedowns...

    Behold the ultimate defense!

    [ame=""]YouTube - Heroes In Flight[/ame]
  17. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    For the most part people who attend grappling/mma gyms tend to be totally sound guys/girls with a healthy and well adjusted attitude towards themselves and others... there are however total morons with chips on their shoulders who train and fight either ammy, semi-pro or pro. While the aforementioned morons' moronicism might not manifest itself during training it can come out in other situations such as being hammered in a club/pub/kebab shop. Context is everything and a 'street fight (tm)' isn't always a mugging or happy slapping type senario at the hands of a bunch of adolescent cretins.
    With regards to Rugby guys, most of the ones I've met are mental and love getting completely hammered as a team and then having a massive drunken brawl. I should point out that this might just be due to them being welsh and that rugby could be purely coincidental to this accident of birth :hat:

    Yeah but... you knew that anyway haha :hat:
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  18. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    :topic:I used to love yuen woo ping/wirework style fight choreography but the flying stuff just started to get ridiculous.
  19. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    Wires?!! Santa? :eek:
  20. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    did I say wires? I meant chi!! chi-work!! :cool:

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