MMA & Systema

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Samurai Jay, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    I'd rather watch a fight with people who knew how to, you know...fight.

    On the other hand I suppose it could be quite entertaining, in a JCVD movie sort of way.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    No big deal - Sherdog is a better source for event info btw...

    They were not so much grappler vs striker as they were style vs style - grappler vs striker is a natural evolution of such distinctions. No Gracie fought a sumotori in the early UFC/MMA events. Gerard Gordeau fought a sumo wrestler in UFC 1 and everyone remembers Hackney vs Yarborough from UFC 3.

    Royce did fight Akebono in a K-1 event, but that was much later.

    They had the opportunity to enter in the early events and most didn't. That in itself is telling.

    The reason people are quick to jump is because this is a bit of a throwback discussion to when MMA had it's genesis and these arguments were dragged out ad nauseam. Tempers are no shorter and less tolerant of those a little behind the times.

    You'll catch up quick though!
  3. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    There's no need to throw your toys out the pram. It's simple mate, get your facts straight before basing a line of argument on them... that way you won't be talking nonsense :Angel:

    I'm not fussed what Dana White said. It's true that there were striker vs grappler match ups in the ufc there still are, it's just not much of an eye opener anymore like it was back then (for some). Point is, there were also striker v striker match ups and grappler v grappler match ups and as for Royce fighting a sumo: no he didn't but he did fight other grapplers... and the kicker? All this was in the first UFC.
  4. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    UFC 1

    Gerard Gordeau = savateur, karateka
    vs Teila Tuli = sumo

    Royce Gracie = BJJ
    vs Art Jimmerson = boxing

    Ken Shamrock = shoot wrestling
    vs Patrick Smith = kickboxing

    as you can see they are stand up fighter vs grappler

    the only one that wasn't was

    Kevin Rosier = kickboxing
    vs Zane Frazier = kempo karate, kickboxing

    I would look up the next 4 but i have lost interest & i know that no one from bujinkan or systema have competed in UFC.
  5. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons


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  6. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Are we absolutely sure that's why you've not posted the other fights? could it be that you are researching selectively to support your point? heaven forbid :rolleyes:

    when you do finally get around to that wholey tasking endevour of looking down the full list of fights from ufc 1 (phew what a drain) you will se it continues as follows...

    Gerard Gordeau vs. Kevin Rosier - striker vs striker

    Royce Gracie vs. Ken Shamrock - grappler vs grappler

    Royce Gracie vs Gerard Gordeau - grappler vs striker

    with an unaired prelim bout:

    Jason Delucia vs. Trent Jenkins - striker vs striker (if memory serves they were both billed as kung fu fighters - danna nanna na-na na-na naaaaaa)

    So as you can see that's a 50/50 split. That's just UFC 1, but a fitting one to look at given your assertions.


    • The UFC was not just strikers vs grapplers
    • you are speakng from a position of ignorance on the subject and doing selective research to back your erroneous position.

    With regards the booj and systema guys in the early UFCs no there wasn't as far as I know - however there were a ton of other styles such as Silat, gendai/fake(allegedly) Ninjutsu/Ninpo, karate, Kung fu, Thai boxing, Judo Sumo, TKD, Boxing, Wrestling, Savate, Kempo, SAMBO/SOMBO, Kuialua... so what's your point? Those booj or systema guys could have entered if they wanted to...
  7. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    I am only talking about the Quarterfinals after that it depends on who wins
    I don't know why they didn't enter, I was to old & like i said before i think muay thai would of won the most fights

    [ame=""]YouTube - Human Weapon - Eskrima - Take Down Defense[/ame]

    how about that for takedown defence
  8. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Trying too hard to make it look simple. You'd have a hell of a time making it happen against a committed shot as presented.
    You MIGHT sprawl then execute it but a half decent wrestler is going to turn over and reshoot, clinch, take the top front headlock, or disengage.
    The sort of movement that foils this technique is exactly the sort of movement that those who shoot a lot are very good at. And that assumes you've managed to make it happen at all. A cow catcher or stocks does the same thing with much better control and a much more natural entry.
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yeah but you can't then stab them!!!!
  10. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    arh you guys don't even like the best techniques i did this to Ken Shamrock back in the 80's
  11. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Actually I like it a lot. It looks like a nuts crucifix setup, but I'm afraid it's not this pokemon card you just play when the dude shoots to immediately defeat him or end his shot. Cause it's a big stretch to expect that. It's neat little transition with obvious openings. That's all.
    Also, what about Ken Shamrock? I confuse.
  12. Linds

    Linds Valued Member

  13. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Well I honestly doubt that is true and I think your just saying that in an attempt to validate your position... however if you look at the card for UFC 2 you'll notice that the first rounds contain plenty of striker vs striker bouts, making you wrong again/still wrong.:cool:

    Most probably elected not to enter through a sense of superiority coupled with or predicated on fear of failure, that would be my guess. Crosstraining booj and Aikidoka have entered MMA events before but I've never seen a pure Aikidoka in MMA except for shane king - he got his ass kicked in expedient and embarrassing fashion. Oh and mauy thai did appear to emerge as the favoured striking art didn't it? :confused:

    what ratty said. Plus that doesn't look like a proper wrestlers shot to me, it looks lke the usual head down horizonal tackle used to make grappling defence look nifty and workable.
  14. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    I realy don't care i know you are trying to get under my skin but i don't bite when things like this don't matter to me, Next time i get an interview with Dana White i will ask him why he said this.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  15. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    could you post the Shane King video
    of course you are confused you don't what to say when i agree with you, this is the problem when you come on here looking for someone to argue with.
  16. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    OK, so the article of examples was funny so I let it slide, but this is something else so I'm going to step in and make a friendly reminder that profanity, pretend profanity, asterisks or anything else is not allowed on MAP. :)

  17. Samurai Jay

    Samurai Jay master of all weapons

    Yer but TMA arts only work from best case scenario's, so they don't have counters from proper wrestling shots.
  18. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    I'm not trying to get under your skin. I just wanted to point out you were in error, you made such a big deal out of trying to worm out of it that I felt compelled to press you on it. I've shown you evidence that you are wrong (which is what you asked for) what you do with that is up to you.

    I wanted to post it, but unfortuanately it dead hard to find. I used to have it bookmarked but the link has expired. the full title was 'shane king vs brian chow UCS 1: battle at the barn'. I cant find it anywhere except to buy one some MMA comp DVDs unfortunately. It's nothing special just good for a laugh.
    As for being 'confused when I agree with you' that's just some sad childish nonsense on your behalf really isn't it? What actually confuses me is that you appear to be saying that if the UFC had featured striker vs striker bouts then Muay Thai would have been shown as the dominant striking art... thing is they did feature such bouts and it was.

    Like I said I pretty much agree with Ratty's comments. I quite like the technique just don't like the presentation and think a sprawl seems like a simpler easier and more versatile manouver, that's all. I'm not just trying to hate on anything and everything you do, irrespective of what you might think.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  19. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    So Jay... thus far you've implied that you've fought frank shamrock and interviewed Dana White. Might I ask who you are? You seem to have lead an interesting life.
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think the Shamrock reference thing was meant as a joke.....I hope so anyway

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