MMA IS A STYLE

To answer my affiliation of Pankration Athlima, it can be found with the following links.
http://www.teamusapankration.com/
In pankration there is a guideline that has to be followed for advancement of knowledge pertaining to pankration. Also, I never said that I didn't like MMA. I do enjoy it as a sport, a competition, conditioning, exercise, health and fitness aspect. Kudos to it. However, I just don't believe it as an art. Are there any governing bodies for MMA? Is there a syllabus?

Consider this: People, like Eddie Van Halen and Brian May are classically trained guiartists. They sought specific education in specific subject material. Would you consider someone who picks up a guitar and starts strumming by ear a guitarist? I mean seriously, I asked for point - counter point debate. Not a tantrum about how it is "Black Belts like me.....yada, yada, whatever."

So if you cannot answer in an educated and respectful way, then I am not answering any longer.

 

Regular wrestlers were dominating for a while. They'd get the takedown, get a dominant position, and pound their opponents into submission. Once everyone started training BJJ they had to adapt their game too.

 

What's your definition of traditional?

Nor is there in many MA, many of which are older than most of the ones we all currently train in.

What's your definition of an art?

 

you have avoided answering me so far so what difference will it make ? how is MMA the equivalent of just picking up a guitar and strumming it as Opposed to to learning it ? you are learning Techniques of all aspects of fighting and how they relate to each other does it mean that someone trained purely in MMA's boxing or wrestling will be sloppy compared to someone who does those arts on there own more often than not yes, does that mean MMA has any less merit or requires any less skill or dedication no not at all and only a clueless person would think so. Ill tell you one thing Eddie and Brian didn't do they didn't limit themselves within the confines of any pre existing form of guitar playing when they created music and they certainly didn't require anyone to grade them before they could =]

 

As far as calling modern pankration traditional, that might be a bit of a stretch too. It's very doubtful what we call pankration today was close to what it was like back in the day. It's more a rough estimate than an exact formula.

EDIT: And though you can earn a black belt in MODERN pankration, I'm pretty sure the older style did not have a Japanese ranking system.

 

Why do things have to work the same way on both sides of the world?

 

I think you've got sand in your undies.

I'm posting a point view. It's an opinion. You're acting like I'm posting a bunch of facts and they're all wrong. This is just my perspective. Feel free to post your own or shutup. Stop being a child.

 

I don't understand what is wrong with what they've said. Can you explain,.

 

Someone who excels in Eastern philosophy would not debate with the likes of you.

 

Yep. Brock Lesnar seems to be doing quite well, heavyweight champion and all that, and his ground game seems to consist entirely of taking his opponent down, crushing him with his sweaty man-chest, and pummeling him while he's pinned. Never seen him try anything remotely complex in terms of armbars, etc. I don't know if he has any BJJ training at all. His ground game is mostly, perhaps all, wrestling and ground-and-pound.

Spoiler

I guess he just beat Carwin with a triangle choke, but still, that's not really BJJ-specific.

EDIT: And how could I forget the great Oregonian Randy Couture? He coached wrestling at OSU, and a co-worked trained with him for a semester. I don't think he had any significant BJJ training; his ground game was all wrestling.

 

I thought MMA was trying to steer away from the homoerotic image?

LOL

 

Even better. Don "The Predator" Frye.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXagapSPM0E"]YouTube- Don Frye Tribute[/ame]

 

You picked a great example that shows clearly why this rationale is seriously lacking. It's pretty untenable position. There are any number of guitarists or musicians or artists of any medium for that matter that aren't 'classically trained'... do they still produce stunning work in a variety of mediums? Absolutely.

John Lee hooker learned how to play a guitar by using tractor innertubes nailed to the side of a barn. Other blues players learned by nailing bailing wire to the wall of a tar paper shack and tuning it by using a bottle as a bridge. Did they define an era? Yes. Did they inspire millions? Yes. Were they able to play the pants off the 'classically trained' guitarist of their day and even today? Yes.

You will find the same theme in many different mediums. The idea that one has to adhere to a single set of protocols or a codified structure in order to be considered an 'artist' is not really going to stand up to criticism. History simply bears out that it's a fallacy.

Technical proficiency and the ability to suffer through a hierarchy and bureaucracy does not an artist make.

 

My point being the inevitably the type that comes into a conversation and identifies himself as a 'martial artist' is most likely the same type of person that will ask you to hold out your arm so he can show you what one when someone attacks thus... or thus... or thus... lol. They are usually pants.

From personal experience - they get very flustered when countered with a simple solid straight right... after they try to lay it on big style when you've held out your arm so they can demonstrate and then try to do whatever technique full throttle... and what usually happens is they end up picking themselves up off the floor and sob 'that's not art! That's just violence!!!'

:hat:

In my experience they are in love with words and theories. They can talk the talk but not walk the walk. Look at MAP... we get these types on here all the time. People who love the idea of training... love the idea of a punch up... love the idea of physical combat... yet it's all so easy to love it from the armchair perspective. In my experience it's rare to come across someone who might actually understand that martial aspect of martial arts and have that gameness. Then again this underscores why to even touch on the subject in mixed company leads to hilarious results and quite often spectacle for all.

You're mileage may vary but in my experience this lot is full of absolute asshats. To me it seems inevitably they are the lot that works very hard to define themselves as martial artists without having to break a sweat, get a nose flattened or having to actually physically back it up.

It's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it. If you've never trained MMA and have latent homosexuality issues creeping to the surface then you might actually view MMA as homoerotic. But that's really more of an issue with the holder of that view point than it is anything to do with MMA. Or has someone invented a time machine and the 'MMA is homoerotic' logic teleported from 1990 to present day. You decide.

 

Hmm... I'm guessing he didn't pull that out of his wrestling background.

 

Regardless of what it has and hasn't, what it is and isn't, MMA has become a style in it's own right and will continue that way. More people walk into the gym for MMA than anything else these day. If the mass populus deems it a style then that's what it is

 

Re: philosophy of MMA:
In my experience everyone has his own. From anywhere from "being able to fight in any situation" to "I like holding people down when i punch them".
It's also really hard to quantify a fighter's skill apart from vague "He's got solid ground game but lacks technique in his takedowns" waffling.

MMA is not one monolithic entity and attempts to make it so are pretty much like herding cats. Sweaty cats who will try to choke you.

You're being angry.

I like that in a man.

 

I come across this alot online, TMAers seem to want to show that TMA is what made great champs superior. I think you need to take into consideration that started means just that, you have to focus on what they trained in for the majority of their professional career and what made them successful.

Anderson Silva did TKD as a teenager and then trained in boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ (BB) and Judo (BB) in order to fight pro and that's what got him to where he is today.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ9u_hO2e3Q"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ9u_hO2e3Q[/ame]

GSP started in Kyokushin but then trained in full contact kickboxing/karate (punches to the face), boxing, Muay Thai (what he trains now and nolonger kickboxing), BJJ (BB) and (the skillset that he most known for a renowned for which you missed out) wrestling.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TFYiSUxXPc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TFYiSUxXPc[/ame]

Chuck started out in Kempo and wrestling, he was college wrestler in the division 1 (best league in college wrestling), he also had 22 full contact kickboxing matches. Trust me it wasn't 'some wrestling skills' chuck in his prime had awesome wrestling ability, he used it to stop takedowns and scramble to his feet when taken down (he's renowned for his knockouts and defensive wrestling abilities). He's also a purple in BJJ.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAjcVdJShQc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAjcVdJShQc[/ame]

The Gracies where pioneers and legends but noway the greats of the past could become champs in the present with their past skillset, they would have had to become considerably more well rounded.

I agree that people who come into the sport with a 'speciality' in a particular area do well as long as they bring their other areas up to a good standard. But if you look at the current champs nd P4P bests they are very well rounded. A silva is a black belt in BJJ and choked out Dan Henderson, who's only been subbed 3 times in his career.