Misdirection in Taijutsu

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Kikaku, May 26, 2006.

  1. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Thread was suggested by Dale, after we touched on the subject of "Misdirection". The original concept was brought up here.

    I stated that :

    What are some of the Kyojitsu techniques/concepts which you cats use to bluff/distract your Uke, in order for you to "get the drop" on your opponent ?

    My instructor places alot of emphasis on the "bluff" and refers to bluffing as "Void" techniques/principles, since they're unknown so to speak.

    I find it interesting to look at other arts and to adapt some of their ideas into my Taijutsu Randori.

    A typical distraction, which my instructor taught me was taken straight out of a Kung Fu style called Hung Gar. The bluff is actually pretty comical to watch, as you wave your hands around in a flying/swimming motion to distract your opponent, then your arms widen to really distract your opponet, then you strike upwards with a powerfull Sokugyaku to your Ukes arm (or other target). This is all done very fast, and it's over in seconds.

    It's very mesmerizing, and is somewhat loosely based around the "Crane" technique.

    Please feel free to add any ideas to make the topic broader and more diverse.
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  2. xen

    xen insanity by design

    random not tricky.

    if you try and be 'tricky' it never seems as effective than if you do something totally random, something that is completely out of context for the situation you are facing.

    it disrupts peoples stratergy.
  3. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Cultivation of Kyojitsu – Truth and falsehood. Misdirection. Good timing.
    I think what you're describing falls under a "Void" concept. Since if your action is random, technically you have no control over it. Subconcious strike :cool:
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  4. shendu

    shendu New Member

    I was thaught a good one from a kick boxing teacher. When you're in a stance all you do is shake your fist wich distracts his eyes for just enough time for you to find an opening.
  5. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    About 5 years ago Sensei said to me during training, "learn to hold without holding and grab without grabbing", that has stuck in my mind ever since.
  6. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    I'm assuming he's referring to Kuken, footwork and body movement to manipulate your opponent into position. It's interesting since, I'm sure this is possible with solid misdirection. Maybe this is what is meant by "Cultivate Kyojitsu".

    So Norm, 5 years later..have you learnt how to do it ? ;)
  7. xen

    xen insanity by design

    not quite what i meant, i was sort of thinking of you initiating an action , you would be in control of it and it would be very much a conscious act on your part.

    it ties in with the stories of zen monks who, when given a koan, would find something ridiculus to 'answer' it.

    a spontaneous expression that bears little apparent relationship to the problem posed by the koan itself.

    in the context of misdirection, it could be anything that is an 'off-the-wall' response.

    an emotional outburst, or an illogical sentance can be good examples;

    imagine you grabbed someone and they burst into tears, or hysterical laughter;

    or if someone grabs you and starts being abusive and you say, "fish sounds like tuesday"

    something bizare can be used to interupt the logic of their thought, only for a brief time, depending on many factors.

    by something 'tricky', i was thinking of putting your hand out to shake theirs and punching instead, or throwing something at their feet etc.

    sterile examples, i know, but you get the gist.
  8. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Marty McFly : "Biff what’s that behind you ! " SMACK ! :D

    Gotcha. I'm on the same wave length. If I'm playing and taking part in Randori, whilst facing my Uke, I will look over their shoulder and pretend to make eye contact with somebody and then smirk (They get the impression that the instructor or another student is behind them and is about to do something to them, so they turn to look). Works like a charm every time :p

    If I'm ever asked to demonstrate a technique in front of Soke or the whole class for that matter, if my Uke has his back to Soke, I'm going to point and say " Hold on a minute, Soke wants to say something" then when he turns to look...WHACK ! BANG ! :D
  9. Existence

    Existence Super Saiyajin :o

    knowledge is like a plague; it spreads :D
  10. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    I'd think that Choshi Dori ("seizing/taking rhythm") would be a pretty good example of "misdirection":


    Noguchi sensei in Japan is particularly adept at this, and often demonstrates it in his classes. I've never known him to try to explain it, though of course most students present are foreigners and he speaks minimal English; but he demonstrates it so anyone who wants to can experience it, and has everyone work on "the feeling".

    Another relevant item regarding this, epecially pertaining to those not in the real flow of Hatsumi sensei's Budo:

    Last edited: May 29, 2006
  11. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Fascinating Dale, great read. Misdirecting your opponents balance, so your Uke ends up falling whilst trying to punch your hand, creating the illusion of a " no contact throw" is priceless.

    I would love to see this in action.
  12. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    No on the first and still practising on the second! :D
  13. bshovan

    bshovan Valued Member

    a little bit of saliva

    Not to be confused with doing this in a sporting environment but purely in a combative/self-defense mode. One good tool of distraction that is always on hand, or I should say in mouth is saliva. Within one's personal space- I feel is at arms length- spitting is a very useful distraction tool.

    Bill Shovan
  14. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Spit on me and you will get a beating so hard your yet unborn grandchildren are going to feel it, seriously.
  15. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    I once saw two huge animals go toe to toe in a Liverpool pub on Christmas day. One was bleeding from the mouth from an earlier punch, so he spat at his opponent and then lunged at him with a right Haymaker.

    I must admit, it worked to some extent. Until the other guy somehow managed to pick him up and throw him into the cigarette machine on the wall :eek: :D
  16. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    Do you know how much those machines cost, what were they thinking??? :eek:
  17. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    They must have thought they’d won the pools, when all those "free" cigarettes came pouring out ! :D
  18. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Any other concepts/ideas ? Anybody ? :eek:
  19. Cannibal Bob

    Cannibal Bob Non Timetis Messor

    I had a Go-Ju and Iaido instructor once who would throw anything to hand at the opponents face, for example, keys, drinks, etc.

    The theory is the natural reaction of most people will be to pull back their head and raise their hands to protect the face, leaving themselves open for an attack.

    In theory.
  20. Dale Seago

    Dale Seago Matthew 7:6

    I've had that work successfully with folks with twin Escrima sticks, nunchaku, etc. . .even when there was nothing actually in my hand. It just has to be done with total conviction and preferably with a "setup" that makes it look likely that you do have something. . .

    Best used at the right point in their pattern of movement, as well.

    "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded." ;)

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