Meat eater reviews. Faux meat.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Kframe, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It's only scary for the first few years, then you'll grow to love it :)
  2. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    You're still sanctifying the eating of meat which necessitates the slaughter of animals. You're straddling the fence instead of being on the side you've claimed.

    I can just imagine how well "thou shalt not kill" would've gone over if immediately afterward moses started looting a fake corpse with a fake knife in its fake neck. It's the same reason you can't have the moral high ground when you go "sex is a beautiful thing" and getting up in arms when there's nudity on TV.

    In which case you can attempt to use all these stopgap measures against the eventual wall of finite resources or you can actually tackle the real problem which is the massive demand on resources in the first place. You've still not given me a reason why more humans = better.

    Not at all. I'm not saying don't protect the planet or put nasty stuff into the environment. I'm not saying don't take care of the planet. I'm saying take care of the planet by reducing the demand on resources and subsequent waste production.
  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    This is all about your beliefs, not how other's beliefs make them hypocritical. And no, it isn't predicated on the idea that killing for a utilitarian purpose is bad. You're still not getting it :)

    In the above situation you wouldn't get chance, I'd have chowed down on you days earlier :D

  4. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    What I believe is that two contradictory states cannot both be right.

    I don't dispute any of that actually.
  5. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    If you're going to say that killing is bad don't sanctify it by eating fake flesh. Have the moral commitment to completely stand on one side of that argument instead of straddling the fence for little reasons like taste or social pressure.

    Nah, I'm all skin and bone. Now I notice Simon hasn't been too active. Maybe he went into the back room and "hit his head" ;) :D
  6. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Actually yes. I had to have an array of blood tests done for a job and that just happened to be part of the mix for some reason. I had it tested after because I just wanted to know how healthy I was.

    Because it works. Can you find me a vegan whole food with the same amount of protein per net weight and a complete amino acid profile and which also covers the same micronutrients?

    Again, same question as above.

    Substituting for the fact that plants are lacking in a vital element. Although there is a promising "meat substitute in development which might actually cover the protein to calorie, and nutrient fronts. But unless it costs less and isn't more hassle than meat it won't make it to my frying pan.
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think the debate is stalling around your view that eating fake meat is "sanctifying" killing animals for food in some way. I don't see how it is at all.

    Someone likes eating meat but doesn't like killing animals, so they buy plant-based foods that try to mimic meat. I don't get what fence that is straddling. Eating cheese is straddling a fence, even eating honey could be seen as straddling a fence, but I don't get how eating mycoprotein is straddling a fence.
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It's from bacteria. Now we can grow them in cultures it's really not a problem.
  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i would question a few things when i'm unpacking your above quote.

    seems that humans really only need about 1g of protein per 1kg of body weight. and, we don't actually need to get a complete amino acid profile with each meal. the research i've read suggests that our bodies stores pools of amino acids for combination later. it seems like the complete profile business is just a myth.

    but, getting a complete profile is ridiculously easy. like rice and beans, hummus and bread. seems weird that humans have developed these recipes, no?

    i track my calories every day because i'm very mindful of what i'm eating, because this (veganism) is so new. i got 63g of protein today, and it wasn't even hard. and i did it be eating: oatmeal, white bread, hummus, pepitas, tempeh, and peanut butter. add in a couple pieces of fruit, a bunch of cabbage, carrots, i'm pretty full today and didn't even overeat. i also went to the gym today.

    you know how much cholesterol i got today? 0mg.

    sure, vegans need to watch out for this. but i can take a pill--not hard. apparently, david is telling me i can eat marmite, and another poster said seaweed--all things i can easily buy.

    since we're talking about what's in or not in our food, what do you get out of cholesterol and saturated fat? can you point to evidence these are good for us in the long-term?

    fair enough. what you eat is your own business.
  10. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    It would be like you not liking Nazis but dressing up as a member of the SS at halloween. You may not be killing the animal but you're still endorsing it.

    You can't eat meat without killing animals. If you're making the decision to not eat meat then actually commit to it. If it's too tough for you to not eat things that taste like meat then eat meat.
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Actually, I just looked at the jar and Marmite is fortified with B vitamins, so you might as well stick to the pills if you don't want to face your fear :)

    I've read that seaweed is not a guaranteed source of B12, the actual levels are variable, so it should not be relied on.
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hey, that's the future king of England you're talking about buddy.



    I honestly don't get how eating fake meat is in any way endorsing the killing of animals for food, so I guess we'll have to leave it there. I'm not sure how many more ways we can say the same thing at each other :)
  13. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    For base survival levels maybe. For people who do physical training the recommendations are 1g/lb at minimum with modern research suggesting the body can absorb much more than previously thought. Simple survival is insufficient.

    And now I have to do a bunch of extra book keeping just to make sure I'm getting those over the long term. Those things are supplements to meat as far as I'm concerned, not a replacement. If you want to replace meat, you have to do better than meat or the same for less $.

    I got 163 from whole foods eating a combination of plant and animals products and I still ended up having to supplement on top of that to reach what I consider minimum without going over my caloric requirement.

    Modern research is casting serious doubt on the links between dietary cholesterol and health problems so that's not exactly a +1.

    And I can eat some beef and not have to do a ton of extra book keeping.

    Can your provide any evidence that a balanced diet is going to reduce my quality of life by a significant amount? Because my bloodwork is fine, as is my grandfather's and he's hitting his mid 80's, and plenty of people have lived to a healthy and ripe old age whilst eating animal products.
  14. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Fair enough :) Maybe we can sort it out some time. Me drinking from the skulls of my enemies you from a... savagely scolded radish or something I guess :D
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  15. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I really like you and enjoy your posts, but respectfully, really? Mixing Nazi's into a discussion of fake meat? That may be the biggest stretch bringing up Nazi's in an Internet argument I have ever seen.

    It isn't the same thing at all. Eating vegetables flavored in any way is simply not endorsing killing an animal. No animals are hurt. That is all that matters. Person is making a conscious effort to avoid eating meat. Not because they don't like the taste, but because they want no animals killed for their consumption. Animals not eaten=mission accomplished. It really is that simple.

    No offense, but you are really jumping the shark on this one.
  16. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I know that's an attempt at humour there, but I think that's what your argument all boils down to at the end of the day...It's the usual and highly embarrassing, "I eat meat and am therefore a real man...unlike you weirdo, weak veggie *insert derogatory term for homosexuals of your choice*".
  17. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Not at all. That's a really bad line of reasoning given the relativism of gender roles. I've never said or implied anything close to that so you're really putting words in my mouth there.
  18. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Heaven for fend that we should enjoy food, what moral degeneracy!

    As for the skulls of enemies, I reckon that's sensible recycling, so as long as I don't start gnawing the bone it's all good :D

  19. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Out of interest, would my fellow veggies/vegans eat lab-grown meat if it were available?

  20. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    you're making it sound like i'm doing all this work, and i'm sorry if i gave you that impression. honestly, i don't even work at it, i just buy the right stuff and eat that. i track my calories, protein, and other nutrients just to make sure i'm not falling into any problems. but aside from the occasional b12, i'm not doing anything other than eating what i'm buying.

    as i shared previously, i got 63g of protein without even trying. i didn't set out the day to say "i have to get so much of this stuff".

    wait, what? sounds like you're doing book-keeping? lol.

    you supplemented on top of getting 163g of protein? wow. are you a bodybuilder? i'm just wondering why you need so much.

    it's all about risk factors to a population, no? sure, sounds like you have great genetics. it's like not everyone who smokes dies of cancer, but there is a risk factor involved. looks like your genetics and activity keeps you going pretty well.


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