No, not at all. You're not eating an animal. Nobody said they didn't enjoy the taste of meat, just that they didn't want to have to kill an animal to get it. Mitch
Yeah...no, you're just not though are you really. How is eating a non-meat product that tastes like meat being remotely similar to being responsible for the death/taking the life of an animal or hurting or causing harm to one?
What I implied, if you read what I wrote, is that it's pretty ridiculous, I would go so far as to say hypocritical, to say you're against something and then imitate doing it as closely as possible. For example: "I don't eat meat for moral reasons" *Eats a non-meat product specifically crafted to imitate meat* I wouldn't accept hedonistic pleasure as a reason for eating meat and I don't accept it as a reason for engaging in the facsimile. So what, if the world didn't have substitute meat flavour they wouldn't be able to hold out against the overwhelming pleasure of taste? If veg's are going to draw a hard line in the sand I think they best not be straddling it.
The girl I'm seeing is vegan. You guys have no idea how hard you are to shop for when I'm cooking you dinner. The whole term "fake meat" just sounds so terrible. You CAN cook a delicious, fulfilling meal with just veggies/grains/legumes. You don't have to try to cover up the lack of meat with "fake meat" to look forward to it. Just a lot of Googling : P. Fake meat . . . . what's next? Fake Crisco?
Fortified foods such as cereals, plant based milks and vege spreads (marmite) will generally have you covered for B12 and calcium. Omega 3 fats can be obtained cheaply through linseed. Seaweed is another good option. Protein is easy - beans, tofu, tempeh, dark leafy green veges, quinoa, nuts and plant based protein powders are the way to go. Also consider getting a blood test done once in a while too. Vitamin D (important for calcium absorption) can be pretty tricky to get from vegan foods, usually its obtained by hanging out in the sun but sometimes the weather doesn't behave itself. I take a vegan vitamin D3 supplement during spring, autumn and winter (probably overkill).
I feel exactly the same about sparring. People should go out looking for fights, not engage in a facsimile of it, it's hypocritical at best. Oh, wait... Mitch
So every cop that ever played GTA is a ridiculous hypocrite? In a country where food is plentiful there isn't really any reason other than pleasure to eat animals. They are a huge waste of resources and a blight on the environment. We eat meat for no utilitarian reason, we simply like the taste. What is it about veggies that makes you so angry the straw men start coming out? Do you get equally outraged at people who drink diet soda, fat-free yoghurt or decaffeinated coffee?
Please don't...I'm on the receiving end of enough stressed induced bad temper. :cry: The free food, lattes and fizzy pop don't make up for it!
I've tried a few Quorn products, the mince seems to be reasonable and with the right added ingredients can make a decent bolognese, chilli etc. Other meat alternatives I find lacking. Soy or Soya chunks though (you have to soak them in water for 10 mins) can be a decent meat alternative in curries, stews etc, I've done the stew/curry thing with them occasionally and given them to family and friends when they are round as a meat dish, and I always ask well what meat do you think it is? They usually have a long guessing game of lamb? Mutton? Maybe rabbit? Etc etc Might be something to consider. The only thing is I've now stopped eating soy, and don't really delve into meat alternatives too much, I either eat meat, or just go vege.
Reductio ad absurdum. If they were against violence altogether and trying to engage in as close a facsimile as possible then we'd be talking about the same thing. If they did their best to engage in a purposeful approximation of violence because they like the way it feels with as close a simulation as possible where they revel in the sights, sounds, smells, and physical sensations of simulated killing, while claiming to be against violence; or if they kept close approximations of corpses lying around their house for the same reason, then yeah. Ease of prep, nutrient content, because I like my food to have been alive....preferably hunted and killed. The only real reason not to eat meat is that there are too many humans demanding resources. That's not a problem which impacts only food and I'm not willing to change my consumption simply because humanity can't or won't control their breeding habits. That's not a straw man argument and I'm not angry at all David. This has nothing to do with veggies or vegans specifically. It has everything to do with hypocrisy. I have a friend who is vegan because his body will literally not tolerate eating meat. He would like to but can't. Him eating faux meat, not hypocritical. If someone was claiming to be against the sugar because they have a moral stance against sweet things, and then was drinking artificially sweetened soda, then I'd think them a hypocrite. I find the same hypocrisy in people who claim to be against clothing/accessory brands which are only pricy because of the name, but who buy knockoffs to achieve the same social status. I find someone a hypocrite for taking a moral stance and claiming to be against eating meat and then going out of their way to eat a simulacrum.
i take a vitamin d supplement, and a b12 supplement. i love eating legumes, tempeh, quinoa, lentils and nuts, etc. i was worried about getting enough protein the most but after some research and some diet planning, turned out it was pretty easy to accomplish. i just naturally eat a lot of olive oil, and nuts--you know fatty foods. and i think it's important to get fat. just to feel satiated and happy. lol
i don't really care that you eat meat. but i just wanted to question this bit and put out some things for you to consider. there are many reasons to not eat meat. i'm just going to list the things i went through before i made my switch. completely unnecessary for human survival meat consumption is deleterious to human health very real environment impact of industrial meat production massive waste of resources as compared to producing plants the killing of sentient beings for consumption
That's Hannibal screwed then Most vegetables are easier to prepare than a carcass, you can get all the nutrition you need from plants, very few animals eaten are hunted, and hunting and killing animals is nothing more than an aesthetic choice. You are indulging your own "hedonistic pleasure" at the thought of animals dying for your dinner. That is a ridiculous argument. Do you apply the same logic to green house gasses? Being vegan is the only real logical response to modern farming. It is a waste of resources to use tons of food and water for a few pounds of flesh. Now, if you're going to have a pig trapped at the bottom of your toilet pit, or you drink cows' blood but don't slaughter them, or we only eat wild animals (we'd probably all get a turn once every few years because there's not enough space to produce enough meat for us all to eat it regularly), then I could see a case for it. The view must be very different from up there on your high horse, because I can't see what you mean at all I kind of get the designer label thing, but the others make no sense whatsoever. If you were talking about vegetarians who are against animal suffering but still eat dairy products, I could understand that, but essentially if there is no neural system in order to suffer pain and fear it really doesn't matter what they eat. Like Kframe mentioned, a fair few vegetarians would eat vat-grown meat because that would not involve any cruelty to a living creature. I don't see that as hypocritical either. How about paint balling? If you were to give an office party outing real guns in place of paint ball guns, would you lambast anyone not willing to murder their workmates for extreme hypocrisy?
For you maybe. I can prep small game or fish faster than most people can prep a carrot and I know many people who can do the same. If I was running a 10 000 calorie diet with 10 hours a day to cook or was willing to chug a ton of vegetarian protein shakes. It's just doesn't make sense in terms of time, money, or nutrients. That really depends on where you live. I have had friends who have lived as subsistence hunters. There are places where you can basically only live on animal. Nope. I take no pleasure in the thought of killing. And this is the crux of the problem, too many humans. Like I said, I'm unwilling to incur the additional expense and hassle simply because the better portion of my species can't control its breeding habits. Even if you make the most green food production, with the highest level of efficiency all that will happen is people will reproduce to the point where we end up starving because of lack of land, or lack of soil, or sheer lack of enough carbon to produce enough plants. You're delaying the real problem, not solving it. So raise animals ethically. If the real complaint here is waste of resources, well we used to use all parts of the animals for a variety of things. I have brain tanned leather goods, bone combs, horn combs, and I make great use of 99% of anything I hunt... If you're willing to eat lab grown what you should be complaining about is that people don't make better use of animal products and don't treat the animals better. That's not even close to the same as going out of your way to completely simulate a murder. Plenty of veg's are saying, "Don't eat meat. Now excuse me while I do my best to simulate eating meat."
Depends on where you live. Plenty of folks have been eating it for a long time with plenty larger impacts on their health. Lots of folks live to a ripe old age, very healthy, and eat meat all the time. Too many humans Automated large scale farming largely takes care of that. Energy is comparatively cheap compared to even a few hundred years ago and we can convert that into food with relative ease. It will only get easier as that tech advances. Depends on whether you think natural competition is wrong or whether we have some cosmic moral duty to rise above baser animal behaviours. If so I say start with overpopulation which fixes plenty of others and is feasible given that automation means we no longer need mass labour forces for production. If not then toss yourself gladly into the fray competing with your fellow humans for resources. The only thing restraining humanity from killing each other is nuclear armament and mutually assured destruction, otherwise we'd still be killing each other on a regular basis. All hail Darwin.
I think I know how conservatives are able to completely ignore facts/statistics and other relevant information so easily, and all because of this thread. I'm a meat eater, and none of the points being made strike any kind of resonance with me regardless of if they are right or not.
It isn't the eating meat that vegetarians are seeking to avoid Someone's had a bad experience with a mung bean casserole... Mitch
What a terrifically barmy view of the world No, you can't. I don't care how fast you can prep a rabbit, I'm rinsing a carrot and munching on it faster. I think you have a skewed view of vegetarian diets, and the cost of plants vs. meat. Well, then as a skilled outdoorsman you are aware of the nutritional deficits you can die of from only eating small game? You can live on vegetables alone, but not meat. Then why did you say that you prefer your food to have been alive and killed? What is the reason for that? Okay, so let me get this straight... All these other humans are selfish because you want to do whatever you like without any regard for the effects that has on the environment or other people, so basically they should just be good folks and die. Is that it? You deserve to live whatever life you want but other people don't deserve to live because they're wrecking the place up for you? In some people's eyes there is no way to ethically farm animals. I think you need to do some energy calculations too, because however you cut it you are going to find that animals take up way more energy than plants. I've yet to taste a fake meat that in any way resembles real meat. Paint balling is a lot closer to murder than vegan bacon is to bacon. You still have not given one logical reason why people should not eat fake meat. I can't get your point at all. Toronto? There's an easy way you can do your bit... Last time I checked cows don't run on electricity. Are you saying that nuclear weapons are bad because they stopped us engaging in global war like we did at the beginning of the 20th Century? If only that was still going on you could eat meat and it would be fine? :thinking:
