Hi all, Here is a clip of Master Chen Yun San of Taiwan. Alex kozma (my teacher) is a closed door disciple of this Master and discribes him as have the Huanjin Stage of development, the mystical skill. Very very soft and not well built by any means yet causes massive damage with very light strikes. Master Chen was a bodyguard to the president of taiwans son and now teaches the taiwanese special forces and bodyguards. Here he is teaching some students from another school (of a well known master) in Taiwan, while being filmed with Alex for a documentary. Notice how the strikes look like nothing ... but the effect is large. http://www.ukbaguainstitute.co.uk/masterchen.mov (note the file is 11 meg unfortunately guys .. sorry about that) Kindest Regards Chris
Yeah, nice vid Chris, seen a bit of this on one of Alex's VCD's. Any more info and/or attributes on the "Huanjin Stage of development" ?
Good stuff Chris - nice to see Alex getting a slap for a change too lol (don't tell him I said that tho!! ) :Angel:
inthespirit, there are three stages of development in the internal arts. Obvious skill, hidden skill, and mystical skill. needless to say very very very few have the last stage. I have heard some crazy things about Master Chen ... the guy is as refined as it gets when talking about tai chi!! ha ha ha ... yeh in the documentary that aired he got a right beating!! master chen healed him afterwards though .... Cheers Chris
i wouldnt pretend to understand it. I am no where near that level. But i understand it as a stage that is not easily explaine or intellectulised ... so thats the other hurdle to overcome. Lets not focus on this idea though. The video of this relaxed and powerful master was the purpose of the post. Kind Regards Chris
Hi Chris This clip is great, I love the way Mr Chen moves. I saw the discovery channel doc with mr kozma and mr chen some years ago, and have wanted to see more of mr chen's taiji since. Question? From what I have seen of mr kozma's form, it seems very different in flavour from mr chen's. Is there a reason for this, or does mr kozma sometimes run his taiji this way also? Thanks Chris J
Hi James, Alex knows a few different forms from a few different teachers. Serge Augier, Master Chen, Master He Jin Han among the main ones. Master Chens teaching is very much based on 'getting' the primary tai chi principles, Alex would have to consistantly repeate a single movement up and down with deep attension to the 'power' at work. I have seen / felt/ learnt the principle methods but not seen Alex doing Master Chens forms. He was very close to master Chen for a number of years so im sure Alex used to do his form the same as master chen, I have some private photos of them training together, (which will be on the new website i am developing for alex) and they look identical in posture etc. It is also worth noteing that master chen and Alex are firm believers in the tai chi form work being 'alive'. By this i mean that there are many many ways to perform the same form, by varying intent, body method and training purpose. I think that the solo work master chen showed in the documentary (which is incredible ... waves of power from deep inside his structure) and at the start of this clip are 'freeform' work with the primary principles constantly interchanging, which i know from experience is extraordinarily difficult to achieve! So this shouldnt be thought of as the 'form' per say. Kindest Regards. Chris
Thanks Chris I thought (quote) that this may be part of the reason - my own form can look very different depending upon what aspects I am emphisising (though never quite like master Chen's). I love that freeform stuff that master Chen does. in my mind it is the most fluid taiji I have seen - but powerful looking too, really clear waveforms if that makes sense. Is there any source of info on master Chen, e.g. lineage etc? I have googled but found little.
HI James, Yes the waves of power are clear in master Chen. IMO his is the best example of fluid, soft, tai chi that i have seen. According to alex you just dont feel the guy ... He attacks the gaps in your mind ... your there attacking .. feel nothing then bam ... your insides feel like they have exploded!! In the documentary you can see this as Alex and master chen go at it in freeform push hands. (I am reliably informed that those strikes took a while to recover from ) There is little public information readily available on master chen in the west unfortunately ... other than alex' writings on him. As i understand it Alex found him when he saw him walking through the park .. then he started doing tai chi and Alex approached him noticing how superb his movement was. Master Chen is well and truely out of the limelight... although well known in the Taiwanese Internal Martial Arts scene as high level. I guess this shows that many of the people we concider high level here in the west are only know because they market themselves heavily. alex says the guys with really really deep skill are generally unknown to us here. Regarling Lineage. I do not know a huge amount about this topic. What i do know i would rather not talk too much about without Alex confirming that he doesnt mind me talking about it. Basically though Master Chens main teacher was a Daoist Priest in Taiwan. Thanks Chris
How can I get to see that documentary Chris? Anyone got it on tape or dvd or clip or something?? :Angel:
hey TJB, the documentary was called 'the real martial arts' and was aired about 6 years ago. I may have a copy somewhere? will have a dig through my millions of videos!!! cheers Chris
TJB I have most of it on vid, starting from the point with alex k and master chen pushing hands. At some point i will get around to transferring it to DVD - then if I remember I can send you a copy. In the meantime, you'll have to watch chris' clip over and over instead. Chris Thanks for the info - appreciate your position re lineage. Regards j
Um, except for the characteristic yeilding....:bang: This is really surprising, coming from Kozma. The man in the video you posted shows nothing of Huajing. His style of bridging goes against classical Taiji principles, as well. The guys form is not particularly impressive, either. He loses root several times in his demo, and his knees are spaghetti. It really leaves me wondering why Alex holds him so high, I really think Alex would cream him if he just stuck to what he's really good at, Xingyi.
first application shown, master chen yields to a strike, follows the line of force given to him and makes the guys nose bleed with a light touch. Second application, master chen yeilds around a force, folding and striking with elbow. fourth, his strike is stopped, he yeilds and folds hitting with elbow ... looks pretty sound to me.... you entitled your opinion. But surely the Huajing stage of development isnt visible on such a video clip. The style of bridgeing ... the form .... his level of skill?? you glean alot of information about master chen from this one video. Alex GOT beaten by master chen many many times, and he was training heavily in xing yi at the time also with one of his main Xing Yi Teachers. This was one of master chens teaching methods .. beating alex up time and again regardless of what alex did. Alex could never figure out how he was able to hit so hard without any apparant force behind his strikes. alex was made seriously Ill (near death) by master chen on several occasions. There is alot that cant be seen in internet video clips my friend. Thanks for your opinion. I guess if you really want to find out ... Head for taiwan and not an interent discussion board. regards Chris