Martial arts = place to express agression?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Bon, Sep 20, 2003.

  1. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    It's only natural for a man to feel anger, frustration, aggression, etc. and for him to express this. When he supresses his emotions, because they're not socially acceptable (mainly to women), he crosses the line to feminism and becomes what people refer to as 'pussy whipped'.

    As a result of this he loses his sense of IDENTITY, PRIDE, FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE, HAPPINESS.

    You can't overide years of instinct. A man needs to be able to express these emotions - is this part of the reason and your motivation to train in martial arts do you think?

    Of course, some of you may not agree with the first part of my post, so feel free to tell me why. I would be very curious to hear opposing views on this subject as this is something I have struggled with for some quite some time, particularly throughout my schools years where I was suspended a few times.

    I think with the exception of a blessed few who truly are pacifists, most of us men need a place or medium to vent our emotions as society takes away more and more socially accepted mediums. Instead, backstabbing, bitching, coniving, etc. is deemed socially acceptable and people can now be ruined socially, legally, politcally, etc. whereas if they were to have a physical fight they would get it out of their system and walk away with a few bruises - it's pretty hard to do serious damage to someone unless you are signifcantly bigger or have some kind of training.
     
  2. Jack

    Jack Valued Member

    Personally, I try to deal with my anger and frustrations by sitting and being mindful of the emotion itself and the thoughts that stem from the emotion. I also generate positive thoughts and wishes to myself and others. This normally weakens anger.

    Surpressing negative emotions can often come back and kick you in the ass. Expressing them provides temporary relief but only strengthens the habit of feeling angry.

    Jack
     
  3. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    Is this some MMA psyching method that you're taking about? I read MMA (in your profile) and I think UFC. You only want to cultivate useful emotions and reactions. Perhaps you use anger in your MMA? Perhaps you shouldn't.

    I used to fight a bit when I was at school. One year, my parents sent me to a boarding school. A few days in, I was queuing for my lunch, chatting with a classmate. He said something I considered 'out of order' so I punched him in the face and got ready to rumble. This guy just rubbed his cheek and looked at me like I was some kind of fool. Realising he wasn't going to fight me, I rejoined the queue and discussed what had happened. That was the last time I ever attacked anyone.

    That was nearly twenty years ago. These days, I'm more like Jack. Sometimes it's a big internal battle to find a way to remember how to be respectful of myself and tolerant of others unconcern. In the end, peace is best.

    Just a couple of weeks ago I spoke to a guy who had hit me out of the blue on Millennium New Year's Eve to say, hey let's be friends. Until I spoke, there'd been this me versus him and his mates vibe going on. It was difficult to not be angry because the guy often causes trouble. But I also knew some good things about him and so I made efforts to see him in terms of those.

    IME when a classmate comes in venting anger, his kungfu sucks bigtime.

    Rgds,
    David
     
  4. Jody Butt

    Jody Butt Valued Member

    First of all, speak for yourself.

    Secondly, watch your language. It's offensive.

    I think you need some counseling. Ask yourself why you are angry. Has your pride been damaged? Have you "lost face" to someone? Has someone insulted you, or belittled you in some way?

    If you are a martial artist, you should realize the importance of a virtuous character. Without that, we are nothing but men with fighting skills (certainly not martial artists).

    You need to learn to conquer your ego. You need to learn to "die to yourself". If someone insults you, belittles you, or lies about you behind your back . . . don't get angry. Just let it go. It's nothing. You know who you are. Be secure in your knowledge that you are a virtuous person and that you have done no wrong (if you haven't, that is . . . I don't know about you).



    So, you're saying that if I can't release my anger by means of physical violence, then I lose my identity, pride, freedom, independence, and happiness?

    That's just sick.

    You've got some anger issues that need to be dealt with (and I say that as respectfully as possible, knowing that we all have our faults).
    Are you an animal driven only by instinct?

    I think you need some counseling, man. I mean that in the nicest way possible. If counseling is not your type of thing, it may be time for you to seek the meaning of your existence. That will take more thought, but is ultimately more rewarding.

    Jody Butt
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2003
  5. Virtuous

    Virtuous New Member

    If some one walks into the dojo looking ready to 'vent' Ill point them to a heavy bag. If you need a physical means to relieve what is bothering you, you can take it out on an inanimate object. I would not subject myself to be the focus of your anger or any of my fellow students.

    You're jesting right? You can easily seriously hurt some one in a fight, Im assuming you have trained in some MA form which makes you that much more dangerous. If you do beat the tar out of some one you easily may be on the recieving end of the "socially, legally, politcally, etc" ruins. As a martial artist you have a responsibility to gauge what action deserves what reaction. If you get enraged to the point to where you need to pummel something your mentality has left the reasonable thinking mind set. Making a good judgment call unlikely.
     
  6. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    Havin a bad day, bon?

    Cheer up m8!
     
  7. inacan

    inacan New Member

    I try and usually sucessfully clense my mind of agression when I do martial arts. It's about being at peace with yourself I feel, and anger has no place for me in the realm of martial arts as it can lead to hasty decisions and poor judgement. But that's me, I'm not saying that agression is wrong or anything, it's just not my personal preference.
     
  8. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    There's a clean aggression called intent that's required to get the job done decisively. It's determination, not anger. Cleanse anger of it's poison and what you have left can be re-cast into intent.

    Intensity without thinking "gee, look at me being intent" is what you're after. :cool: Intensity without losing respect for your fellows.

    Bedtime! No more posts from me for hours and hours!

    g'night,
    David
     
  9. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    LOL Your a angry angry young man Bon!!!
     
  10. cal_JJJ

    cal_JJJ New Member

    Bon;

    "You can't overide years of instinct. A man needs to be able to express these emotions - is this part of the reason and your motivation to train in martial arts do you think?"

    Constructively dealing w/ your emotions is a matter of character not instinct.
     
  11. Scotty Dog

    Scotty Dog www.myspace.com/elhig

    Re: Re: Martial arts = place to express agression?

    Right that's it I'm jumping to Bon's Deffence here.

    Granted he may not have worded this well but I believe that there is merit in some of what he said. (someone may have watched Fight club a bit much ;) )

    His question was originaly about "aggression" not Anger, two very diffrent things.

    I personaly use some of my training time to get rid of exess aggression. hitting the pad's, heavy bag, sparring hard with a lot of armour etc, AND I believe this makes me a better, less aggresive person.

    It's a fact that in this day & age we all build up levels of Adrenalin from social situations when our body kicks into fight or flight but it's not socialy acceptable to do either. There are diffrent way's to get rid of it and this is the one I find works the most & the best for me ( I also find going for a good run, or playing the PS2 helps as well).

    Does this make me a worse person that someone that sit's in a quiet room & "reflects" on the emotion????? I don't think so.

    I do think that it makes me a better person than a muppet that can't admit what he's feeling & end's up expressing his aggression on someone that doesn't deserve it ( wife, kid, neighbour, work mate)
    I also find it funny that someone claiming to control his anger & aggression can make such an aggressive post;)

    Hig
     
  12. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    Cheers, elhiggito! :)

    David, no it's not some MMA psych-up method. I am never angry when I'm sparring, there's no place for it unless it can be controlled.

    Jody Butt, what about my language do you find offensive? I didn't use any profanity as far as I am aware.

    Secondly, do you really think I need counselling?

    Letting someone walk all over me, especially another male in front of other males is exactly the thing I'm saying we shouldn't do. Now, when I say it's only natural for a man to express his emotions, I don't mean beat the guy to a bloody pulp! I'm talking about sticking up, telling a guy who slaps your girlfriend's ass in a room full of guys to apologise. If you don't, it'll take you a month before you get your respect back. You'll go home beating yourself up over it and you won't know why you're upset. A man will still be respected if he sticks up and loses, it's acknowledged.

    Perhaps I am a little too simplistic for you and you would like to think we are great creatures, far superior to any other animal... but, I don't think we are. Why would women want to be with us if it wasn't for us to protect them? We're hairy and smelly!

    Why has EVERYONE picked out aggression and assumed I'm angry here? I am currently the furthest thing from angry because of martial arts. I was just wondering if anyone else was the same.

    Being a martial artist doesn't mean you have to possess virtues most people don't. To me, martial arts are the study of combat - nothing more, otherwise I would take up a religion or study philosophy or something.

    Kat, I take it that's sarcasm though I could be wrong?
     
  13. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    And relax, everyone :)

    Your question did make a big thing out of working off anger and stewing inside.

    When a guy touches my gf's ass I often do the same to him or otherwise say to him he shouldn't be doing that. Dealing with things immediately is always best if you think the other is corpus mentis.

    To train a naughty cat, you have to 'punish' it immediately it's done the undesirable act otherwise it won't connect the punishment with the 'crime' and won't learn the thing you want it to.

    Rgds,
    David
     
  14. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    David, to me it seems like you agree with my post.
     
  15. Kat

    Kat Valued Member

    Bon
    Yep I should have put one of these;)
    That and the counselling shot had me ROFL:D
     
  16. cal_JJJ

    cal_JJJ New Member

    Bon;
    That is some of the most mixed up mush that I have ever read. How on earth does just burning off aggression in MA help you deal w/ a rude dude at a nightclub! Lets see, I had a hard work out last night so I'll just worn the guy and go home wishing I'd knocked his block off; No, I didn't have an aggressive work out last night so I'll tear him apart and go jail wishing I'd handled diff. Give me a break, you may be using your MA to burn off aggression but don't confuse that w/ being a man & how you live your life!
     
  17. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    Bon, I know what it's like to feel affronted by careless acts of others. But I try and think like Jesus "forgive them father for they know not what they do" ;)

    Your original post was pretty venomous, tho...

    Loosen up. I think I had trouble because I have had a few provocative gf's...

    Rgds,
    David
     
  18. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Sorry David, not coming to see you anymore, no offence. :D
     
  19. Jody Butt

    Jody Butt Valued Member

    "Pussy-whipped" is vulgar language.

    You said you would lose your happiness without being able to express your anger through physical means. So, yes.

    Sounds like you're afraid of losing face in front of a bunch of guys. If you know you are right, who cares if they want to walk all over you and insult you. Let it go. Be silent. Die to yourself.


    Leave. Walk away. Better yet, don't bring your girlfriend to places where you don't know the people (i.e. bars and most parties). That's the best way to protect her. Don't place her in situations where such things are a possibility.

    You're talking about respect. Respect from whom? Respect from those guys? You don't need their respect. They are disrespectful people to begin with. Stay away from people like that. If there are decent, respectful people who happened to view that incident, you will lose no respect for walking away (because they would understand that the only person who lost respect was the guy who slapped your girlfriend's behind in the first place).

    Sheesh. Companionship, maybe?

    Why? Read your first sentence again. "It's only natural for a man to feel anger . . . ." Then you go on talking about using the martial arts as a venue for working out your anger-induced aggression (the anger that would come from people walking all over you, and slapping your girlfriend's behind, for example).

    For me, it does. A martial artist develops his skills to protect those who cannot protect themselves from the unjust aggressors of this society. (and to protect himself, of course).

    The martial arts do not exist in a moral vacuum. Every altercation has with it a moral context. In other words, someone is in the wrong, and someone is in the right. Those who would harm another are in the wrong. It's good versus evil.

    Like I said, you train in the martial arts to develop combat skills because you think that you may need to use them some day. If you ever do need to use them, there will, of course, be a moral context surrounding the situation. You can't divorce the martial arts from morality. In fact, you can't divorce anything in life from philosophy.

    If physical violence appears, there will always be a moral context. Make sure you are on the right side (not just protecting your pride).

    Food for thought.

    Jody Butt
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2003
  20. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Actually, Bon is right. Agression is a natural and useful part of your makeup that makes you perform better in exercises and so on. If you don't have any need of it to, say, plough fields or hunt deer like your ancestors would, why not hit a bag and be a generally nicer person to be with in the rest of your life?
    Incidentally, if anyone touches Kinjiro's ass without her express permission, and i say this in cold blood, I will kill him :)
     

Share This Page