Martial arts master kills 2 raiders

Have you guys seen this yet?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1061765,00.html

Martial arts expert kills two raiders

Philip Willan in Rome
Monday October 13, 2003
The Guardian

A Chinese martial arts expert was in custody yesterday after turning the tables on four burglars armed with knives, killing two of them and seriously wounding a third.

The 28-year-old man, known as "the doctor" for his practice of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, managed to seize one of the two knives carried by his assailants and saw off the entire group with the ferocity of his reaction.

Magistrates in the central Italian town of Empoli are now seeking to establish whether his self-defence constituted an excessive use of force.

The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film, began shortly before midnight on Friday when the four men knocked at the apartment of a Chinese hairdresser in the centre of Empoli.

The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", who operated from the same premises, were reportedly overpowered and tied up before the group, all thought to be in their 20s and 30s, ransacked the apartment.

Disappointed by their meagre booty, the attackers allegedly threatened to rape the two women unless they told them where the rest of their money was hidden.

At this point the doctor managed to free himself, seize a knife from one of the aggressors and deliver a series of lethal stab wounds.

Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung.

The doctor was found crouching in the entrance to the building with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands.

Investigators are trying to determine whether he inflicted the injuries while defending himself inside the apartment, or hunted down the burglars after they had fled.

 

Knife famililization would have helped

However a man can kill people with a knife and no training with ease.

Still good on him - they should not have been up to no good!

 

hmmm.... well excessive force or not, he saved two women from being raped and maybe even murdered. Plus he saved himself. I was not there in his shoes and walking in them so I cannot say he could have done it different. nough said.

 

More power to him, hunt them down and finish the business...

 

Yes, we weren't there so we really can't comment on whether this was an appropriate response or not.

In law the first knife thrust may have already been "excessive force". When does one stop fearing for one's life?

A prosecuting lawyer may argue that an armed martial arts expert would not be in fear of his life and thus his actions were just murder.

It will be very interesting to hear how this turns out. There has been no coverage since the Guardian story other than references to it.

I'm kind of torn about what I think about it. One half says: good man, defending those women. Other half says: he should have had more control. Oh well .... easy to contemplate your own navel. No one can say what they would have done, even experienced combatants.

 

I think it's sad when someone finds themselves on trial for defending themselves, though i do understand that he may have used excessive force & for anybody else knows he may have killed these guys for a very small reason.

Having said that i really think that if they weren't up to no good in the first place, non of it would have happened. So sod 'em.

 

I say good on 'im.
so the two scumbags got killed? so, big loss...

 

I guess the MA guy will have to put his trust in the law for this one. At least he will have witnesses.

 

see thats the point though. They will bring up his MA background and say he should have been able to do without killing those pukes, but if he did not have a MA background they wouldn't have much of a case. Ohh well. I guess thats one of those minor details they forget to tell you when you start training. "If you use your training against others, even defending yourself and others, it can still be held against you." What a load of crock.

 

I dont know if thats the case Bokata. In Britain we had a farmer put away when he shot some burglars in his home and he got put away. I dont think he had any MA training.

 

True, but thats a different case than this one. These people were actually tied up and the women threatened with rape. So I think its a little different.

 

But were they tied up? We will never know for sure thats why its down to the law to complete an investigation and hopefully justice will be done

 

true, true... "reportedly tied up". hehe. ohh well, coup d'état.

 

Better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6....

 

On a slightly different tangent, I thought that this report might make some people think twice about posting on how "unrealistic" traditional Chinese martial arts are.

My opinion is that it depends on the individual .... can they make it work for them? In this case the answer is obviously yes!

 

ROFL!!! That's what struck me straight on the head

Ah well, two more phsychopaths gone off the face of the earth

I wish him well though

|Cain|

 

I posted this (my memory of it anyway) in two knife threads.

I don't know what the problem is. The Italian Carbonieri (sp.?) are about the most violent POlice in the world. SMG's on the street, shot if you bump into them etc etc.

Rgds,
David

 

who knows, the attackers could have been experts with knives but just not good enough in this case.

 

Thats the ticket 'ol boy!

Nothing makes me happier then stories like that.

 

It is less the use or knowledge of Kung Fu

As soon as anyone ends up on trial and its brought up that they do a MA it is assumed they are black belt killers which we as martial artists know is rubbish and its not cos he does a CMA that makes the difference.

It is the issue of the KNIFE.

He did not kill them with his hands but a Knife, the one he disarmed was not a problem as disarming someone is a small price to pay. However if he then stabbed an unarmed man he will be in trouble.

However in the same situation would I unload. I think I would as there are women there, fear and pressure and if I did not then I would have remained tied up.

Still if u are gonna do these sorts of crimes then you have to deal with the repocussions. Trouble is we do not know the full situation but the only reason its being made a deal of is cos he did MA. Yet used a knife.