hI Folks, Having never been in a real fight luckily. I have one question for you on observatons i have on seeing fights happen around me. Im currently studying Kenpo and have been for 7 years, and although all the tecniques do work in the gym which ofc there bound to. I have noticed from fights ive watched or seen in the street that within seconds it goes to grabs and holds. Kenpo does not have this in its sylibus. Do all fights go to the ground or holds, if so then surely any martial arts that envolves standing fighting is a waste of time if the opponent just goes in to wrestle mode. Oppinions appreciated from people who have been caught up in the real fights on the streets. cheers,
EH? I thought my question was a very good question. As from observations i find that basic street fights do go to the wrestle,brawl mode. Then it may be better me taking a look at ju jitsu, wrestling or Judo rather than the standard. Kenpo, shotokan etc( ie standing arts which i feel do not have any uses when its all down to wrestling on the ground)
I find this is one of the main arguments from MMA enthusiasts. Roughly speaking there are two types of technique in martial arts, stand up and ground., and it is said you need to study both to be a complete martial artist. I personally favour stand up and so that is what I mainly study. In my mind I wouldn't engage in grappling because I prefer to fight standing but if somebody did engage it I want to know that I could handle myself against at least an untrained apponent. Maybe you could supplement your Kempo with a little grappling? I wouldn't say all fights end up on the ground, it depends on your preferred fighting style and that of your opponent as to where the fight will go.
Hmm...isn't being able to transition from move to move the goal that we all want to get to? I mean, in BJJ one move is used to set up another. If thats not working or a counter is taking place, the BJJist transitions to his next move. I would imagine in Kenpo, you have punch, grab, kick and weapon defense, therefore, instead of relying on a set technique, just go with the flow of whats happening. As for the going to the ground...hopefully this doesn't turn into one of those debates again. In my humble opinion, anything is possible. I'm not going to say yes or no, because every situation is different. Some people though, may choose to keep the fight where they're strongest.
This does pose the classic grapple vs strike argument. In these cases it just depends on whether the striker is good enough to take the grappler out before he engages grappling or whether the grappler is good enough to avoid getting hit before he engages grappling.
Sorry I might of read your previous post wrong. Were you implying that stand up arts are useless if you want to learn how to fight? And by fight did you mean in the ring or just generally?
Yeah, you've misunderstood. I wasn't commenting on the effectiveness of any form of fighting art compared to another or ring vs "street" fighting. Just that the attitude of "if most *real world* [street ] fights go to ground - then learning a stand up MA is a waste of time" is only true of your only reason for learning a martial art is to get into fights. I personally don't do martial arts primarily to learn to fight, in fact learning to fight is pretty far down my list of reasons for do MA, if on the list at all.. Not to say theres anything wrong with learning to fight, if thats what you want, but its not the be all and end all... Tigersan - why do you do Kempo/MA in general?
I agree with you entirely. When I ever doubt the effectiveness of my art vs other ones I just think, "How often do I get into fights anyway? And even if I did what are the chances of them being Randy Couture?" I do MA because I enjoy it! I did go to a Muay Thai gym that was really tough and after a couple of weeks I realised that it just wasn't for me, I didn't like having to hit people and get hit every day. Sorry I did misread your previous post!
I answered this in another thread you started anyway but to add to what I said, when you hit someone, they get scared and if they are still conscious,l which they usually are, then they will almost intinctively ty to grab you to stop you hitting them more, I've done it when people hit me and when I've been hit by people and hurt, I've tried to grab on to them just to make them stop. If your only experience of this is watching street fights, that would imply to me that you have never had the experience of hitting someone hard enough to provoke this response (I could be wrong) and that in turn implies that your trainning will not prepare you to take someone out quick enough to stop them grappling so in summary learn to grapple a bit and look into the concept of "alive training" if you haven't already.
I dnt want to learn it to fight, far from it. I do MA as i enjoy it. However if the time ever came i had to fight, so far ive been lucky. I like to feel my martial arts will serve me well, if im facing the average joe who wants to try to take me out. But all fights ive seen or observed go to one person throwing one punch then it turns into a scrap of pulling cloths and both falling on floor rolling about punching each other. (in this case Kenpo will not work). I started Kenpo as at that time it was that or taekwondo, and kenpo im doing has had the guts ripped from it and its the self defense aspect used in the class together with thai boxing as instructor is a 7th dan in kenpo and 2nd in thai. Both standing arts, and thats whats making me think, WHY?? So was wondering if other people learning standing arts find it has helped in the past in a street scenario
ROTFLMAO!!! I've always been a champion of studying paleontology to become a qualified psychoanalyst.
Yeah 'cos thats the same as learning a martial art for fun/sport/exercise etc. More like learning a foriegn language when you have no intention of going to that country. Or learning about biology even though i don't want to be a doctor.. are you really so narrow minded that the only reason you can think of that someone might learn a martial art is because they want to know how to fight better? Tigersan - you say you don't do MA in order to learn how to fight? Why then should it matter if the kempo you're learning isn't 100% street efficient?
I'm curious... if your so set on martial arts being social hour in white silky pajamas or what have you... why even bother to include the martial bit in it? I means seriously... why not just call yourself an artist?
More like learning a foreign language knowing you've got all the grammar wrong, but saying "well I only study it because I like the sound of the words, what does it matter if they're misspelled and in the wrong order? I'm never going to talk to a foreigner anyway." On a personal, artistic level... I guess it's a case of 'whatever floats you boat'. But just as the above might cause controversy if you claimed you were studying linguistics, so does claiming to study martial arts without fighting.
Just because I don't do martial arts to learn how to become the ultimate macho god of street fighting doesn't mean what I do in the dojo isn't fighting related. People throwing punches and throwing each other to the floor is martial, whether you do it with the intention of learning to fight people in the street/ring or not. If anything its the art bit that i'd take out (of almost all martial arts - what about it is artistic?) I'd class what i do as a martial passtime or martial hobby possibly a martial sport.
